O'Brien Mortise & Tenon Neck/Body Join Jig

[Luthier207]

Hello. I'm new to the forum. I'm a luthier and guitar player. I had gotten into luthery after becoming disgusted at the cost of every guitar I seemed to want always started at around the $3,500.00 range.

I was looking at YouTube the other day when I'd seen a Luthier named Robert O-Brien who teaches at the "Red Rocks School of Luthery" (or a school very similarly named). Even so, he'd displayed his technique for joining Acoustic guitar necks to bodies and had a very simple looking jig the was in two parts. The first part was for cuttung the mortise in the body and would be very easy to built simply from sight. However, the tenon cutting section of the jig, for cutting the neck, was a bit more involved. I wouldn't even bother everyone if it weren't for the fact that Mr. O'Brien had a bar that indicated for him when he'd reached the perfect cutting angle; which he'd predetermined earlier in the video.

If anyone knows where I can obtain blueprints or any plans for this jig please let me know.

The video isn't difficult to find, the URL changes frequently or I wou,ld have simply pasted it here. However, if you go to YouTube (www.youtube.com) and perform a search for the "O'Brien Neck/Body Mortising Jig" it should bring you right to the video to which I'm referring.

Sincerest thanks,

and pleased to meet all of you.

Christopher S. Johnson -- Johnson's Custom Woodworking
(Luthier207)

[Brackett Instruments]

(Disclaimer: I didn't/haven't watched that particular video, but Robbie's a great guy who I consider a friend.)

I believe AGF sponsor, and all around great guy/luthier Paul Woolson (Woolson Soundcraft) designed, or at least partially designed the jig.


Here's a few links that I believe are for something similar to what you're talking about.

OLF thread about possible plans

Similar jig, made and sold by Jon Simpson

IMHO the ultimate neck jig

[Kitchen Guitars]

Thanks Woody! I asked to be put on the blueprint order list. I was wondering what I was going to do for the neck joint!

Welcome Christopher 207!

[Luthier207]

Thanks Woody and Yamaha for replying to my inquiry so quickly. You guys must be guitar crazy as I myself seem to be. I'd gone to the YouTube website and gotten the code to embed the clip of the jig used by Robert O'Brien. I'm posting it below this paragraph.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yzlZvDyKnPI&hl=en_US&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yzlZvDyKnPI&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

As far as blueprints for the jig go, there are none that I'm aware of. I'd called the Red Rocks School of Lutherie (their particular spelling of "Luthery," but either works I suppose). To make a long story short, Robert O'Brien, as was mentioned by Woody I believe, seemed like a very likeable guy who seemed as down to Earth as any person could be, but he told me that there were no blueprints, available through him anyway, that could be bought.

I have no worry about making neck/body joints, but if this machine could guarantee me nearly perfect action as an end result on every guitar I would LOVE to build one. There is simply NOTHING that I have ever done in my workshop that is more disheartening than build an acoustic guitar and put your soul into your work only to realize at the completion of the job that the action couldn't be fixed with any tricks such as lowering the nut or saddle, or both; andin the worst cases even removing as much material from the bridge as possible without doing damage to the instrument to the point that the sound is so bad that the only feasible solutuion is a complete neck reset. This is the main reason I've switched ovweer the years froma die-hard traditionalist who thought it near-blasphemy to consider anything but a dovetail joint for the neck/body joint to an advocate of the mortise & tenon for the joint.
A great example of what I'm talking about, as well as something that I believe will turn even more believers of the strength of the mortise & tenon joinery techniques can be seen by looking at what the Taylor guitar fatory under Bob Taylor has done with their cantilevering neck system; which they claim is closely guarded as a "trade secret," but then turn around and put out videos on the Internet, and even mail free VHS tapes to anyone who requests one, that shows people a relatively in-depth look at their entire process and what it invlolves, from a luthier's point-of-view. Even though the particulars are patented, for the moment, Utility Patents are only good for 20-years and are non-renewable. So after 20-years passes from the date Taylor Guitars was issued their patent for the cantilevered neck system expect to see hordes of guitar manufacturers to be offering the same type of system that you can currently only acquire from Taylor Guitars.

This is, in no way, saying that Taylor Guitars didn't do something incredible for the entire world of guitar-making. I believe their innovation to probably be one of the biggest leaps forward since the X-Bracing pattern was adopted many, many decades ago and they will undoubtedly receive recognition for their contribution, as they should. -- I justy hope that I live long enough to see what becomes of the cantilevering neck/body joinery system once the technology becomes part of the Public Domain, legally speaking. I wonder if companies will be able to improve upon the design to make the ultimate acoustic guitar that can be adjusted in perpetuity and can be guaranteed to never have neck problems; only time will tell.

Thanks again for writing back so soon guys.

Again, it's extremely nice to meet other Luthier's who are passionate about what they do. I have nobody to talk with in my immediater vicinity about the one thing in life that I love above all others; Luthery and Guitar-Playing; to that extent, thank God for the Internet.

Sincerely,

Christopher S. Johnson (Luthier207)

Christopher S. Johnson -- Johnson's Custom Woodworking & Luthery

[Kitchen Guitars]

On the OLF they are producing the blueprints. They need roughly 20 more folks to step up and order the plans so they can produce them economically. I put my order in for a set. If they don't happen I guess I am off to eBay to just buy the Jig.
I know what you mean. Most of my friends look at me like I have 3 heads when I talk guitars.

[Luthier207]

Sorry about the caption; I'd gotten cut off when writing the title so that you would know to whom I was speaking. I'm 39 going on 23 it seems and I've played guitars asll my life. Admittedly, they are the ultimate female magnet, however, that was never my intention of wanting to learn to play.

I'd gotten into luthery after realizing that all of the guitars that I deemed as being desireable would usuaklly start at around the $3,500.00 range and progress upward from there. At the moment, the guitar that I would most like to own, or at least have access to play, would be one of the newer Taylor 12-String models that have the reinforced graphitye necks and the neck/body join is a mortise & tenon in which the nech actually cantilevers into the guitar's body so that one can sety the action in 5-minutes of less to their liking.

These guitars, in my opinion , represent the most significant advancement in luthery since X-Bracing had come along or the pickup was invented to allow the rythym guitar player to shed his nearly invisible existence in the big-band era and go to the front of the stage by the end of the 1960s.

Whenever I start talking about guitars, luthery, or even woodworking in general, my "girlfriend" (whom I'm seriously contemplating sending on her way) looks at me as though I'm a moron and I'm completely boring her. I would love to ghave a girlfriend who shares my passion for everytrhing music; including luthery.

Don't worry my friernd, I check this site out as often as I can. I will talk luthery with you, or music in general until the perverbial Cows come home and there will never be a dul;l moment in the conversation.

I sincerely love all of you and honestly feel privileged to be part of such a website. I'm a member of the M.I.M.F. (Musical Instrument Maker's Forum), but they seemingly are only interested in showing off and trying to establish themselves as the "Best of the Elite Luthiers."

Even so, not all individuals who work in the field of luthery as a hobby, or even a job have an elitist approach. Ihave written back & forth with Dan Erlewine on a few occassions and, although I don't really know hom except through the letters he'd sent me, he seems to be a genuinely down-to-Earth guy who sincerely loves what he does; and he's very good at what he does.

Just remember, and this goes to all members of the Acoustic Guitar Forum, write me anytime you want and I will always do my best to get back to you. I would like to consider us a brotherhood, a family who loves what we do and we certainly shouldn't have to search for people to "act" as though they're intersested in what we do when there are so many of us right here.


Sincerely,

Christopher S. Johnson ---- Luthier207

[Robbie O'Brien]

I just came across this thread.
Back when the OLF was thinking about offering a set of plans to build the Woolson jig I contacted them and told them I had just had a set of CAD drawings done for my updated version of this jig and could offer them the plans. Never heard back from them. My original jig was a version of what I had seen Kent Everett use years ago. His was mounted in a table top and had the adjustable shelf underneath. I made another jig for cutting the mortise part of the joint. Years later I saw the bar that extended from the shelf to set the angle. I think most folks attribute this to Paul Woolson. I liked the idea and incorporated it into my already existing jig. I now have an updated version to both jigs that one of my students came up with. It is a jig that cuts the tenon on one side at the correct angle and the mortise on the other side. It will do both M&T and dovetail joints. Anyway, I now have cad drawings for the jig and LMI will be selling the hardware kit for it so you can build your own. I am working on an instructional video on how to build and use the jig.

[mhammond]

Christopher:
Welcome, There is another forum that is primarily oriented to the builder and his needs, link below. You may find it very valuable for its tutorials, archives, etc.

http://www.luthiersforum.com

Again, welcome
Mikey

[catguy]

This would be what you are looking for from LMI http://www.lmii.com/products/tools-s...-and-templates

[printer2]

Originally Posted by catguy

This would be what you are looking for from LMI http://www.lmii.com/products/tools-s...-and-templates

Wonder if in the last four years he found one?

[GreenWoodworker]

I worked at Taylor and would join the necks to the bodies, its no secret groups come by for tours and they never said dont talk about the joining or take pics or anything. Pretty much all it is is a shim on the top (fretboard) and a shim on the heel side. They made these kinda homemade crude looking measuring jigs to get the correct sims. It worked 75% of the time. I like the fact that you can take the neck off to reshim it but from a acoustic sense it cant be good for the sound to have the necks bolted on plus the shims were some kind of soft wood like cedar or something (i think?, hard to remember). I mean they sound good just to me it seems like they would sound even better if they were glued.

All that said im looking for a easy simple way to join necks too. The scariest thing to me about tackling building a guitar