Adding pickups to a HD-28

[azfarrier]

So I looked at a phenomenal Martin HD-28 yesterday. I've got a decent Martin, a DC16-GTE, and a decent Taylor, a 314 CE, but this thing was amazing. The tone and sustain I couldn't believe and couldn't put it down. It felt and played like it was built for me. The only down side is there are no built in electronics.

So forgive me if this is a dumb question because I'm mostly an electric guy. Will I risk losing any of the things I love about this guitar, acoustic tone and sustain, by having a pickup installed and if not which one would you recommend? Currently I'm in a band that we play some bar gigs but micing up for that would be problematic. I would definitely mic it for any recording though because it's just amazing. Thanks for any help and once again I apologize if this is a dumb question I just don't want to spend that kind of money and then make a mistake.

[tammuz7000]

I have a K & k in my Hd28 and it works great. No battery and nothing under the saddle. Most Martin guys love these and it won't alter your sound in any way.

Tom

[jseth]

There are some pickups that affect the unplugged tone and volume of an acoustic guitar, and you are wise to approach an install with a degree of caution... many pickups do not affect the natural tone or volume, so it is good to do your due diligence prior to purchasing something and having it installed...

I have yet to hear of anyone saying that a K&K PW Mini altered the tone or volume of their guitar in any way... nor have I heard anyone say that about the Trance Amulet pickups. Of those two, I would favor the Trance Amulet M with an outboard preamp if needed (I don't want a battery and preamp inside my guitar anymore...!).

I have had good luck with the Fishman Matrix, as well; didn't notice any shift in volume or tone on my guitars (both of which I have owned and played for 35+ years now...). The LR Baggs Element is one that, in my opinion, DOES alter both volume and tone when playing the guitar "au natural". I have the Anthem SL in both my stage guitars (6 and 12 string), and I really like the performance of that pickup, or else I'd yank it out of there!

Your choice will likely depend upon how you want to use the amplified instrument; in a loud band setting, one type may work better than another.

Lots of good choices out there for you, though...

[pmarino]

I had a full Baggs Anthem in my (now sold) HD-28 and it sounded great.

[63telemaster]

I've just put a Baggs M80 soundhole pickup in my D28 which replaced a Baggs M1 Active. Both are great options if you're playing acoustic in a band (as I do) as there are absolutely no problems with feedback. If your budget will allow, the M80 is well ahead of the M1A imho.

A good multifx will give you a great stage sound and with some tweaking you'll be surprised how close you can get to your HD28. A soundhole pickup will very slightly dampen the response of your soundboard but it can be removed in a couple of minutes by loosening the strings if it bothers you.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by tammuz7000

I have a K & k in my Hd28 and it works great. No battery and nothing under the saddle. Most Martin guys love these and it won't alter your sound in any way.

Tom

To each his own...I'm a Martin guy (5 Martins), and I can't stand K&K pickups, ESPECIALLY, for loud gigs with bands that have a drummer. And yes, I have tried it with all of the recommended preamps (including K&K XLR). Yep I've tried them in 5 different guitars (3 came with them). My HD28 has a Fishman Infinity Matrix which didn't alter the sound at all, sounds decent, and can get a loud enough for band bar gigs. My Martin D17M and most of my other performing guitars are loaded with the B-Band XOM 2.2, which also didn't change the tones of those guitars, and is my favorite pickup.

[IndianaGeo]

I had this same question on the very same guitar (an HD28) a few weeks ago. After loads of research I went with the LR Baggs Anthem SL. I love the results. It's not very invasive either and I don't even notice it's there. Installation will likely require a slightly larger hole where the end-pin goes. Good luck to you.

IG

[martingitdave]

AZfarrier,

This question is asked a lot. So there are a great many threads to review online that will apply to your situation.

The good news is that there is nothing specific about the construction of the HD28 that would preclude the installation of any after market pickup.

The bad news is that there are dozens to choose from and here is no consensus among artists. Thought, there are a few universally favored models. The genre of music, your playing style (flat pick or finger style), volume of performance, if you play with a full band, how much degradation of tone you're willing to accept, battery or battery fee preference, etc. will dictate which solution is best.

Tell us more about that you do, where you play, with whom, through what equipment , and we will be able to recommend 2 or 3 options (narrowed down from dozens) that AGF members have experience with.

Cheers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[azfarrier]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

AZfarrier,



Tell us more about that you do, where you play, with whom, through what equipment , and we will be able to recommend 2 or 3 options (narrowed down from dozens) that AGF members have experience with.

Cheers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Thanks for all the answers and suggestions from everyone.

Martingitdave, that's kind of my problem. I really love the acoustic sound of this guitar and that was why my main concern was that I didn't want to take a chance of altering that tone by making any changes to the guitar. As I said I'm predominately an electric guy but I do know on an acoustic there are so many factors that effect the tone I didn't know if this would or not.

As to how I would use it I'll use it for recording, in which case I'll just mic it. I play in a couple of different bands both playing in small to medium sized clubs. Typically playing through the house PA. One is a country band, one is a blues band. Both bands have a drummer, myself and another guitarist and bass.

Thanks for all the help.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by azfarrier

Thanks for all the answers and suggestions from everyone.

Martingitdave, that's kind of my problem. I really love the acoustic sound of this guitar and that was why my main concern was that I didn't want to take a chance of altering that tone by making any changes to the guitar. As I said I'm predominately an electric guy but I do know on an acoustic there are so many factors that effect the tone I didn't know if this would or not.

As to how I would use it I'll use it for recording, in which case I'll just mic it. I play in a couple of different bands both playing in small to medium sized clubs. Typically playing through the house PA. One is a country band, one is a blues band. Both bands have a drummer, myself and another guitarist and bass.

Thanks for all the help.

In your case, since you're playing with a band/drummer, you should consider a pickup with good feedback resistance. Both blues and country bands can get reasonably loud. Usually, pickups with an under saddle transducer (UST), and some sound board transducers (SBT) are reasonable good at fighting feedback.

It has been my experience than some USTs will alter the acoustic tone. Some of the USTs use a softer material that slightly compresses under the saddle. It makes for better amplified tone, but *might* be perceptible to some players. Some of the heavier (SBT) systems will also alter the tone. Moreover, some active (internal) preamp systems will come with controls that mount to the underside of the sound hole edge. Active systems also come with batteries. Now, some people will complain that these things will alter the tone. Others will claim that is nonsense. You'll have to be the judge.

You'll hear a lot of recommendations for the K&K Pure Mini on this forum. I have used these extensively in the past, but don't use one now. One of the reasons it is so well regarded is that is provides a "good" amplified tone but it is extremely light weight and doesn't alter the un-amplified acoustic tone. Also, in its basic form, it uses no batteries and has no controls. You simply plug it into the mixing desk directly, or (more appropriately) into an impedance matching direct box or preamp. It has reasonable feedback rejection. Not excellent, but people use these in bands every day. Lastly, the passive version costs only $99.

"So, why would anyone be crazy enough to use anything else", you might ask? For two reasons. One, the pickup is adhered to the bridge plate with super glue. While the pickup is removable, the glue residue is not, for all practical purposes. This can be an issue when/if you want to install a different style of SBT in the future. This is the primary reason I don't use K&K anymore in high end guitars. I'm generally satisfied with the tone, but I had a bad experience removing one from a guitar. Which, brings me to reason two. There are better sounding systems on the market. How much better? Not a whole lot better. But, there are higher fidelity systems which can be useful for finger style, solo work, or for audiophiles who want the best they can get. The down sides to these options is cost, complexity, *possible* degradation of acoustic tone. An example of this kind of system is the Trance Amulet M, which is about as good as a pickup can be, without using a microphone.

Lastly, there is a newer technology called Impluse/Response convolution. It's the technology behind the Fishman Aura and a new product called the Tonedexter. This technology records your guitar through a microphone and a pickup at the same time. The data is stored in computer file called a wavemap. That wavemap translates the pickup input signal into the microphone recorded sample in real time. It's nifty stuff. The Fishman works best with Fishman hardware because there is no user training. The maps are pre-recorded. The Tonedexter is trained by you, with your guitar, and is pickup agnostic.

If you're like many players, you stopped reading this post at the K&K description and thought "yeah, that's good enough for me." You wouldn't be alone. If you are a "tweaker" like some of us, you dive down the rabbit hole chasing the "my guitar only louder" holy grail.

Let us know if you have questions.

[azfarrier]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

If you're like many players, you stopped reading this post at the K&K description and thought "yeah, that's good enough for me." You wouldn't be alone. If you are a "tweaker" like some of us, you dive down the rabbit hole chasing the "my guitar only louder" holy grail.

Let us know if you have questions.

LOL well obviously I'm not one of those guys. Thanks so much for the very thorough and detailed response. I really appreciate it.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by azfarrier

So I looked at a phenomenal Martin HD-28 yesterday. I've got a decent Martin, a DC16-GTE, and a decent Taylor, a 314 CE, but this thing was amazing. The tone and sustain I couldn't believe and couldn't put it down. It felt and played like it was built for me. The only down side is there are no built in electronics.

So forgive me if this is a dumb question because I'm mostly an electric guy. Will I risk losing any of the things I love about this guitar, acoustic tone and sustain, by having a pickup installed and if not which one would you recommend? Currently I'm in a band that we play some bar gigs but micing up for that would be problematic. I would definitely mic it for any recording though because it's just amazing. Thanks for any help and once again I apologize if this is a dumb question I just don't want to spend that kind of money and then make a mistake.

Install a Trance Audio Amulet M Dual Mono Acoustic Guitar System and don't worry anymore about your acoustic or amplified tone.

[azfarrier]

Just one last question. Do I need to be worried about voiding the warranty by adding a pickup?

[Beagle1]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

In your case, since you're playing with a band/drummer, you should consider a pickup with good feedback resistance. Both blues and country bands can get reasonably loud. Usually, pickups with an under saddle transducer (UST), and some sound board transducers (SBT) are reasonable good at fighting feedback.

The above is a really important consideration IMHO. When you are playing with a drummer or in a band, the decibel level goes up a lot and you need something that is not only feedback resistant but can also cut through the mix. So in general, I would say you want to look at something that has either a UST or magnetic pickup as part of the mix (i.e. it could be part of a dual-source UST/SBT or UST/mic system).

azfarrier, I know you said in your OP that you also have a Taylor 314ce. That is a nice guitar, and perfect for band gigs! Not sure if it has the original ES pickup or the ES2. But why not just use the Taylor with the band, and use the new Martin HD28 for recording and the like? Or, put a very non-invasive SBT system in the Martin to use at small acoustic coffeehouse gigs, but still save the Taylor for the loud band gigs. I'm sure the new Martin sounds a lot better when played acoustically, but IMHO a lot of those subtle sonic details go out the window the second you add a drummer to the mix.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Beagle1

azfarrier, I know you said in your OP that you also have a Taylor 314ce. That is a nice guitar, and perfect for band gigs! Not sure if it has the original ES pickup or the ES2. But why not just use the Taylor with the band, and use the new Martin HD28 for recording and the like? Or, put a very non-invasive SBT system in the Martin to use at small acoustic coffeehouse gigs, but still save the Taylor for the loud band gigs. I'm sure the new Martin sounds a lot better when played acoustically, but IMHO a lot of those subtle sonic details go out the window the second you add a drummer to the mix.

Excellent advice! This is exactly what I have chosen to do, for instance. I have the Taylor 210e DLX with ES2 for higher volume situations. It's more feedback resistant. My higher end Martin is currently awaiting a Trance Amulet MVT system sitting on my bench. I'm tempted to leave it out because it sounds so good amplified.