Deeper bass

[Bax Burgess]

Theses are all good notes - much thanks. My experimental, sacrificial lamb Ibanez is on its way. I'm going to apply this in a step by step progression. First, one nickel sized port, then two (ala fitness'), then enlargening one of those in increments to the point when the sound quality diminishes. Do you guys have suggestions for a more telling process?

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by Bax Burgess

Theses are all good notes - much thanks. My experimental, sacrificial lamb Ibanez is on its way. I'm going to apply this in a step by step progression. First, one nickel sized port, then two (ala fitness'), then enlargening one of those in increments to the point when the sound quality diminishes. Do you guys have suggestions for a more telling process?

The first thing I'd ask, before you start the process, is how you play (standing with a strap, sitting (right knee or left knee) And when you sit are you hugging the guitar tightly?

To make ports really work, you need to be sitting with the guitar away from your body as much as possible. I use a semi-classical position with a foot stool. The very edges of the binding on my left leg are all that is touching in regard to the body of the instrument.

I'm very careful about placement of the port(s) based on this position. I want one pointing at each ear as much as possible.

If you are standing with the guitar on a strap and up against your body - I'd try to talk you out of installing ports......really not going to make much difference, you are already "muting" the heck out of the responsiveness of your instrument.

[MC5C]

I've experimented with ports and sound hole locations on my archtops, which while different from classical guitars share some characteristics. The raising/lowering of main air resonance is something I've been able to verify experimentally, and I've found the lower the main air resonance the more forward the bass is, both listening as a player and audience. Adding a side port raised the main air resonance, reduced the bass response but added so much volume to the player that the net was improved response over all, with the exception of a wolfy D note. The next one I built had a Ken Parker style sound hole, in the extreme upper bout on the bass side, in both the side and the top. It was smaller in area than a typical round hole on a guitar. Both things are known to lower the air resonance of a guitar, combining the two brought me a main air resonant frequency of F (low E, first fret) and quite exceptionally even bass response far greater than any of my other guitars. I tune it D-D to take advantage of the deep bass of that guitar. It would be interesting to get someone to build a classical with such a soundhole, with a top optimized to take advantage of not having a great bloody hole in the middle of prime soundboard territory, and see what happened

[Carey]

In the OP's search for deeper bass, a tornavoz *might* be an inexpensive
solution. I have not tried one, but here is D'Addario's take on an old idea,
used at times by Torres and Hauser :

http://www.daddario.com/pwProductDet...6-deb781f0d2d7

[Bax Burgess]

Originally Posted by fitness1

The first thing I'd ask, before you start the process, is how you play (standing with a strap, sitting (right knee or left knee) And when you sit are you hugging the guitar tightly?

To make ports really work, you need to be sitting with the guitar away from your body as much as possible. I use a semi-classical position with a foot stool. The very edges of the binding on my left leg are all that is touching in regard to the body of the instrument.

I'm very careful about placement of the port(s) based on this position. I want one pointing at each ear as much as possible.

If you are standing with the guitar on a strap and up against your body - I'd try to talk you out of installing ports......really not going to make much difference, you are already "muting" the heck out of the responsiveness of your instrument.

Seated, the body has two points of contact, the edge of the back resting on my leg, my forearm touching the front edge. I'm ready to go.

[Bax Burgess]

Originally Posted by MC5C

I've experimented with ports and sound hole locations on my archtops, which while different from classical guitars share some characteristics. The raising/lowering of main air resonance is something I've been able to verify experimentally, and I've found the lower the main air resonance the more forward the bass is, both listening as a player and audience. Adding a side port raised the main air resonance, reduced the bass response but added so much volume to the player that the net was improved response over all, with the exception of a wolfy D note. The next one I built had a Ken Parker style sound hole, in the extreme upper bout on the bass side, in both the side and the top. It was smaller in area than a typical round hole on a guitar. Both things are known to lower the air resonance of a guitar, combining the two brought me a main air resonant frequency of F (low E, first fret) and quite exceptionally even bass response far greater than any of my other guitars. I tune it D-D to take advantage of the deep bass of that guitar. It would be interesting to get someone to build a classical with such a soundhole, with a top optimized to take advantage of not having a great bloody hole in the middle of prime soundboard territory, and see what happened

I'll include that Parker technique. The guitar that I'll be using is an all-laminate, mini dread.

[Dafiryde]

Thanks guys for all the feed back since,
Drilling a hole, not to sure if I would attempt that, but will sleep on it.
As for the D’Addario acccessory will give that first a try,

[MC5C]

If you go to this page: http://brianburnsguitars.com/my-process and click on the "final voicing" pdf download, you will get the best discussion of how to tune a guitars braces and top for various responses that I have ever read.

[Carey]

Originally Posted by MC5C

If you go to this page: http://brianburnsguitars.com/my-process and click on the "final voicing" pdf download, you will get the best discussion of how to tune a guitars braces and top for various responses that I have ever read.

That is a remarkably good resource! Thank you for the link.

[Bax Burgess]

I've done my comparison on the identical, all-laminate, Ibanez mini-dreads. Same strings, same saddle material, both guitars sounding identical. I play right-handed guitars upside down, being a lefty, so I opened up three nickel-sized holes on the treble side:

upper bout,
waist,
lower bout,
and a Thurman style soundport at the front of the upper bout- 2" wide, 1.5" fore and aft.

I opened and closed each port in turn, using tape, and the palm of my hand over the Thurman port. The result is fascinating, and the one port that had the greatest presence on its own was the Thurman. When I tilt the non-ported Ibanez towards and away from my ear while playing, there is an obvious difference in volume etc. With the ported Ibanez, this transition is much less noticeable, as the side of the guitar has taken on characteristics of the top. If I could have only one port, it would be the Thurman for its greater volume. As for the nickel-sized ports, it does matter that a port be close in proximity to the ear, though, when all three are open there is a general reinforcement of the effect.

My current choice is to keep all four ports open, making for a grand, smoother sound without sacrificing clarity. My original intent was to enlargen the ports to the point of sound failure, but I'm stopping, because it would be a shame to lose what I've gained. Deeper bass? No, I don't think so. Compared to the bass which existed before the porting, the result has been an expansion of warmth and general volume.

Try this experiment with solid wood classicals? I don't know what the effect would be, and the cost...

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by Bax Burgess

I've done my comparison on the identical, all-laminate, Ibanez mini-dreads. Same strings, same saddle material, both guitars sounding identical. I play right-handed guitars upside down, being a lefty, so I opened up three nickel-sized holes on the treble side:

upper bout,
waist,
lower bout,
and a Thurman style soundport at the front of the upper bout- 2" wide, 1.5" fore and aft.

I opened and closed each port in turn, using tape, and the palm of my hand over the Thurman port. The result is fascinating, and the one port that had the greatest presence on its own was the Thurman. When I tilt the non-ported Ibanez towards and away from my ear while playing, there is an obvious difference in volume etc. With the ported Ibanez, this transition is much less noticeable, as the side of the guitar has taken on characteristics of the top. If I could have only one port, it would be the Thurman for its greater volume. As for the nickel-sized ports, it does matter that a port be close in proximity to the ear, though, when all three are open there is a general reinforcement of the effect.

My current choice is to keep all four ports open, making for a grand, smoother sound without sacrificing clarity. My original intent was to enlargen the ports to the point of sound failure, but I'm stopping, because it would be a shame to lose what I've gained. Deeper bass? No, I don't think so. Compared to the bass which existed before the porting, the result has been an expansion of warmth and general volume.

Try this experiment with solid wood classicals? I don't know what the effect would be, and the cost...

If you have one port that is 2 by 1.5, and three others, you have PLENTY of openings - I wouldn't go any bigger anywhere.

[Bax Burgess]

Just one more, so that I can get my car in there.

[Blunote]

D'Addario makes a set of 'Bluegrass" strings. The lower three (E,A,D) strings are medium gauge and the higher ones (g,b,e) are lights.

Sure firmed up the bottom end of my travel guitar -an Emerald X7.

[pf400]

Try an EQ pedal, experiment with string makes and gauges, keep your amp on the floor, and try a chorus pedal at low settings. I like the added resonance that I get from a chorus pedal. Consider installing a pre-amp if your guitar has none. I'm wondering whether changing out the bridge and saddles might help.

[Rapido Eduwardo]

I just installed Savarez Cantiga 510 R Basses. In my opinion they are deep.