what pick up for a 2006 Lowden F25?

[Aaron Smith]

Aloha Chris- just wondering what it was specifically about the Baggs PADI that you didn't like? Obviously it's not a blender pre-amp, but I've had very good results with it so far for the K&K Pure Western Mini passive pickup. I've found it to be quite flexible, and the sound quality seems pretty darned good to me.
Thanks, Aaron

[alohachris]

Aloha,

RE: The Padi

First, I realize that the Baggs PADI is a very popular and useful tool and it has many fans from beginners to seasoned pros. It's been very successful for Lloyd Baggs. Therefore, these words are not meant to offend you PADI fans in any way. I'll keep it civil. It's just another opinion, that's all.

I think the reason I dislike the PADI is that I was duped into thinking it would improve my live sound and so I tried it out for several months, several years ago now. All the players out here in Hawaii "loved" it at the time because it was cheap and schleppable, and you could keep it in your case. But....and I'm not an idiot in terms of working systems and boards for maximum natural acoustic sound benefit... and as much as I tried in all the venues I play, I simply couldn't make it work for me. Today, you don't see many PADI's used by giggers out here anymore. There are good reasons for that.

Why? First, I've been using dual systems since about 1979! Yeah, a pioneer in that area - John Carruthers turned me on to those early combos and I loved them. The PADI didn't help me much there so I tried it on the early single piezo SBT's I was using in combo with internal mics also using a splitter/DI. I never liked it's colored sound - on several pickups I might add.

Second, it lacks any semblance of HEADROOM - and that IS a real sin to me now - and should be to you as well. To me it absolutely sounds like a mid-80's digital wall of colored sound and today's Fishman Aura's also sound very similar to me. It's constrained sounding and it leads to ear fatigue. Just compare it with better preamps to hear what I'm talking about. Do you remember when we had to use dbx and dolby to rid ourselves of tape hiss? And those noise-reduction tools just killed the "feeling" of the acoustic guitar all together. That's what the PADI does to my way of hearing acoustic guitar, IMO.

Thirdly, the PADI's EQ system is just plain mediocre, cheesy even, and certainly not deep enough to be useful to a live gigger playing in many types of venues weekly, the notch filter was weak. The PADI lacks room control if you aren't connected to a house system as I mostly have not been. That's a another crucial reason not to like it. I needed better EQ and control. Even the cheapest small mixers today give you way better EQ and control than the PADI.

Finally, as you begin to move up into dual source or more systems, with better parts of a planned signal chain, the PADI is simply not good enough electronically, IMO again, to be included in such a chain.

So when I hear people so enthralled with the PADI, I feel they are greatly limiting the sound they could achieve and ability to improve their signal chain by including a PADI there. It's a marketing victory for Lloyd Baggs that's for sure. It's just popular mediocrity to me for all these reasons.

As far as I'm concerned the PADI is OK for people who are just getting into live gigging or for people who work open mic gigs regularly. But there is simply not enough sound quality, HEADROOM, room control, or connective flexibility with the dual systems I prefer for me to think favorably of the PADI. That's especially true today when there is so much better available - Fishman's Pro, DTAR's Solstice, the PAMDI, the SPS-1, for example which are also schleppable but world's better for not much more money.

I wasted months trying to force the sound of my acoustic guitars out of that popular little box of fool's gold.

Again, just because I'm not into the PADI, it doesn't mean that those who are should get defensive. I just want players to know that there are MUCH better live acoustic sounding preamps out there. And celebrating mediocrity like the PADI won't get your rig to that ultimate sound you know exists. In fact, it may retard it movement towards that sound.

The reason why I sound like a broken record here on some topics is purely informational. I have a lot of live gigging experience and am slowing it down a bit now. I'm not trying to say I'm right, only passing along what I've learned as a gigging player and singer now for 45 years.

Through friends on this and other sites, I have informed myself and been able to achieve my dream rig and I have learned so much in the process of putting it together. In turn, I strive to inform people about what I know to be available out there, to challenge them to do more research on some products about which they may not have heard, those not marketed as successfully as the PADI.

So I try to balance out the PADI's popularity with an opinion that can lead players to better sound and control in their live amplification - just as others here like Sdelsolray, Rick Turner, Matt and others have done for me.

Thank you all for another indulgence of this topic and for all of your opinions on these sites. I've learned so much!

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

PS: TO ALL PLAYERS! Once you get a Pendulum SPS-1 preamp, all the questions will be answered. I swear. Check it out. - alohachris-

[jackrabbitpunch]

hey aloha chris,

yeah man, I spent way too much time picking this guy out but I'm sure it will sound great, it was kind of pricey, I don't think I am allowed to say how much... But in the end I am sure it will be worth it.

[royd]

Dave,

do report back once your pup is installed and you've had a chance to use it. What do you like, not like, etc.

[Aaron Smith]

Hey Chris- thanks for your detailed response. Among your list of preferred alternatives to the PADI, the Fishman Pro is the only one that is comparable in terms of price and features. What do you like better about the Fishman- fidelity, headroom, etc.?

[jackrabbitpunch]

Hey guys, thanks so much for all your help, I thought I might come back and post on what I ended up going with.

I was going to do the k&k trinity on my lowden EXCEPT the fantastick under saddle would not work seeing how the lowden has a split saddle. I contacted dieter and he said he could make a custom one for $75 extra but I was already going to spend a good chunk of change so i decided to pass on that.

I then ordered a k&k pure western mini but when we were installing it we realized that the bridge plate is about an inch away from the actual bridge and we would have to double sided tape it (unless we rigged it) so i passed on that as well.

What I did end up doing is going with the Baggs Dual source and instead of using their under saddle I picked up a fishman split under saddle pick up. I absolutely love the way it sounds. I didn't have any problems with feedback even with a full band.

just wanted to report and again guys, thanks for everything.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by jackrabbitpunch

when i play with a band it is pretty loud on stage so minimal feedback is of course a primary objective. So say I was to go with a K&K Trinity, I would also need a new preamp as well?

You need a, "Telecaster".