Martin SC13e sliding dovetail neck/joint(IMPORTANT CORRECTION-post #32)

[darylcrisp]

So i purchased one of the SC13e's and it was delivered friday, unfortunately the neck had a crack found upon opening. I emailed pictures immediately to the shop and the owner called and said he would take care of things monday. So, having this guitar around, and planning to be in the guitar room doing some work, i had to see what this new sliding dovetail is all about(and even if the guitar had not been damaged, i would have taken it apart to see all the pieces-just one of those things you got to do).

The first picture shows the back of the guitar, where both screws are accessed-the front screw you can see, the other is accessed thru the black plastic protrusion-this screw is actually inside the body cavity-that black plastic thing is simply an access hole. the truss rod uses a 5/32" allen wrench, as does both neck bolts. i imagine Martin has a special tool design for this allen wrench. it takes one a couple inches long to access these areas. put the SC13 on its top, unscrew both allen bolts and a gentle push down of the neck and lift up of the body allows the neck to fall out.

you'll see the crack areas in the front of the sliding dovetail cutout.

just slide the neck forward and its free. the rearward bolt is loose inside the body, lift the body up, slide a hand inside and hold the bolt with a finger and flip the body over-the bolt will fall free.

[darylcrisp]

(I have edited the photos and replaced the two first ones with corrected pictures that show the metal block in correct position with the rounded end facing towards the headstock-this is very important)

I'm sure i do not have any of the names correct for the parts, but i'll tell you what i call them until i learn what the Martin deemed names are.

on the neck you will see the sliding dovetail cut in the mahogany wood, a metal lining where a metal block sits(and the two bolts just removed-attach too). this metal piece sits on top of a composite piece that has 3 "appendages" that flex slightly and hold the neck firm as the bolts are tightened.

these first two pictures show the underside of the removed neck with the metal block(that the bolts attach too) in the dovetail slide. take note of the two small cutout areas at the front of the neck that are for the two position pins to drop into-the extra space for there allows the neck to be slid fore or aft for intonation adjustment. on the end of the neck you see the underside of the fretboard overhang.

the third picture shows where the neck fits into the body. in this picture you see in the upper left corner the circular end tip of the intonation bolt that is accessed thru the soundhole. in the center of the upper area is the access channel for the truss rod tool(accessed thru the soundhole as well with 5/32" allen), the threaded bolt showing is the rear bolt that is accessed in the first post thru the black plastic on the back of the body). behind the threaded bolt is the neck adjustment shim(black rectangular object), that is accessed thru the soundhole and shown better in the next reply. in front of the threaded bolt is the 3 appendage piece that the metal block rests on top of, as the correct torque is place on both neck attachment bolts, the metal block(sitting inside the dovetail slide)is pulled against this 3 appendage flex piece. the two small metal pins in the front of the picture are the alignment pins for the neck, and last you see the hole for the front neck bolt.

[darylcrisp]

looking at the shim access thru the soundhole, the truss rod access in the center, and the intonation adjust screw on the top right. the shim is some composite material, has two small arms that snap in it in place. different size shims are available to adjust neck angle.

[darylcrisp]

the crack areas. initially i only saw the one more obvious crack. immediately removed string tension and went to work friday. the guitar landed 10 min before i was leaving. came home and removed the neck to investigate, replaced everything and the neck and crack snugged up clean and tight. the action was excellent, low the entire length of the neck, played and sounded fantastic. action was 4/64 at low E, and 3/64 at high e.

the body itself weighs 2.8 lbs, total guitar with neck weighs 4.4 lbs. sits balanced and is a wonderful instrument to play. the build quality is excellent and when i at no time did the thought of it being a laminated build enter my mind-it sounded just like a regular OM or slightly larger guitar. Rich full Martin sound. Loved the custom light gauge strings.

the whole instrument felt extremely well built, very lux. the fit and finish are superb. i am a gigbag person and this one is very nice. reminds me a lot of the Reunion Blues RBX style bags-of which i have four. firm padding, waterproof closing zippers, the exterior feels of a waterproof or very resistant material-its not your typical cheap thin nylon.

thats it. the neck goes back in place easily-i turn everything over and lay the guitar on top, raise the body, insert the neck in the back corner and lever the rest of it into the neck pocket. once in place, slide the neck until you can peer inside the front bolt hole and see the metal block, insert the first bolt and snug lightly, raise the body slightly, take the other bolt inside thru the soundhole, insert and hold, then insert the allen thru the second black plastic access hole, then torque both to factory specs. it takes about 5 min (this includes removing the strings at the bridge) to take the neck off, and 5 min to replace, once you've done it a time or two.

[jonfields45]

I now understand why the neck cracked the way it did under impact. The sliding metal dovetail is what is holding it in place. If the neck is pulled upward (while laying on its back for this reference) the metal body side of the dovetail is going to push the neck side of the dove tail apart.

In a traditional dovetail design, the receiving end of the dovetail is the neck block which is a larger stronger block of wood compared to the end of the SC13 bolt-on neck.

Considering how good the box looked relative to many I've seen, this might turn out to be an achilles heel similar in severity to a Gibson headstock.

V2 of this design will replace that sheet metal liner on the neck side of the dovetail with a machined steel or high strength casting bolted in position prior to the fingerboard being glued in place.

All of this seems like a major mechanical contraption to make the marketing claim it is still a dovetail (and have the intonation adjustable). The very useful user-slide-in shims could have been combined with a more conventional bolt-on design.

[Peter Z]

Thank you, Daryl!
You provide some information.

[darylcrisp]

i hope it all works out great for Martin, i think this next year will be the wait and see. so many things regarding this guitar make it one of the best, most fun guitars i have played. it draws you in fully. it played great last night, the most fun Martin i have ever played(and i've owned a couple nice Martins).

[tubeamps]

thanks for all the pics and information. Nice job.

[jricc]

Thanks for sharing the pictures Daryl!

[CarolD]

Fantastic photos. Looks complicated :>. Is someone going to replace this guitar for you?

I watched a video on this guitar...can’t remember which one, and they said one of the metal dovetail pieces is aluminum and the other is stainless steel. Don’t know if that’s how it looked to you.

[mercy]

That is not really a dovetail as the wood neck is a telecaster type neck that slides in a cavity. I do see metal dovetail shaped pieces but that is like the actor Metalmouth in the James Bond movies or someone with dentures. Im sure it does the job, Ive not problem with that but calling it a dovetail joint is marketing, like the above ad "Rachael made this guitar" or something to that effect. Call it what it is Martin.

[UncleJesse]

These are great pics Daryl! You should share them over at the Martin forum too.

[Tnfiddler]

Don’t flame me, but Is Martin finally seeing the light concerning bolt-on necks? People can say what they want about them supposedly affecting the tone, but paying $60 or less and having your neck reset In 10 minutes IS worth it to me.

[loco gringo]

That seems like a very convoluted approach to a bolt on neck compared to these:

https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitar...es/taylor-neck


Jump to 1:30 if you want to see the neck come off.

[Tnfiddler]

Originally Posted by loco gringo

That seems like a very convoluted approach to a bolt on neck compared to these:

https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitar...es/taylor-neck


Jump to 1:30 if you want to see the neck come off.

Taylor guitars are where I came from and I’m so glad my Bourgeois has a bolt on neck! So simple to adjust and MUCH easier on the wallet!