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#1
07-06-2020, 07:21 PM
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Open backs: Grover or Gotoh
As a retirement present I've got an Eastman E20D coming in a couple of days. I'm pretty sure I'll be upgrading the Ping tuners (I'm picky about that). I haven't bought an acoustic in 20 years, but changed out the rotomatics on both my Taylors for Gotoh 410s and 25 years later they work flawlessly. I also have use Grover 309s on several mandolin builds and they work beautifully.
So I'm torn on replacement tuners. I'm leaning towards 1:18 Grover Sta-tites as I think they'll serve my purposes fine and should be a drop-in replacement. I notice for a little bit more, Gotoh makes an open back 510 with small vintage looking bushings that screw in rather than press fit (they're only 1:15 ratio though). They may require reaming the holes. Anyone have experience with these two open back tuners? Oh, and Waverlies are not in the running, I'm freshly retired, as in more time, less money (thus the Eastman instead of a D28). Thanks for your input. RB 
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#2
07-06-2020, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
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#3
07-06-2020, 09:45 PM
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Roy, Gotoh makes several different models of open gear tuners that identical to each other until you look more closely. There are some that will serve as direct drop-in replacements for the Pings without any drilling or need for conversion bushings.
But the open gear 510’s do require some modification to the headstock. whm
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#4
07-06-2020, 09:50 PM
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I've used both and both work great. I do feel the Gotohs tend to on the surface be manufactured to a higher tolerance so it feels pricier (which the sets I used are) but in terms of function I find, on average, they perform similarly.
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#5
07-06-2020, 10:08 PM
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I recommend that you try the Pings for a week as you apprise the guitar as well. The Pings on my two Eastmans are very smooth and accurate. I've thought about babying my guitar, but what if I spent the $100 and the new tuning machines were stiffer or didn't fit as advertised? I think the Pings do the job quite admirably.
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Eastman E1SS-CLA-LTD Eastman E1OOSS-LTD Cordoba Fusion Orchestra CE Cordoba SM-CE Mini Classical Acoustic Ibanez Blazer 21 MIJ Stratocaster 2 Yamaha PSR-SX900 keyboards I play professionally Roland FP-90 digital piano I play for pleasure with piano VSTs.
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#6
07-06-2020, 10:55 PM
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I second what Beakbird said, I have the ping tuners on all of my Eastmans and I'm really happy with the way they work. I'm picky about my tuners as well. I will usually put Grovers on any new guitar I buy, but the pings work fine for me. But if your not happy with them you can always spend a 100 bucks or more and try something else. I think your going to like that E20d.
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Eastman E10ss Eastman E20D-tc Eastman E20om
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#7
07-06-2020, 11:10 PM
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Well, the Eastman guitar I have came with Ping open gear tuners on it, and I wasn’t particularly impressed by them. I replaced them with Schertler open gear tuners, which are the best open gear tuners I’ve ever used, with the exception of some extremely costly custom Rodgers tuners that I ordered for one of my mandolins.
The Schertlers were not direct drop-in replacements, but I was going for functionality and accuracy above all else, and I’m very glad that I made the swap. Wade Hampton Miller
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#8
07-07-2020, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
I have 2 sets and both are like this. Maybe new 2019/2020 made Grovers are better over these from 4/5 years ago. I put Waverlys on partly because of review on here and partly because they're a near drop in replacement. I appreciate they're not an option you're looking at. If the choice is Grover or Gotoh, i'd take the gotoh over Sta-Tite any day. I've head good things about the 510 versions and the normal SE700 get good reviews too. YMMV, IMO ect...
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Dave King 000-12- Engelmann/ Madi Rosewood Epiphone 1966 Century Fylde Alexander- Engelmann/ Rio Rosewood Fylde Falstaff- Sitka/ Rio Rosewood Maestro 00-IR- Adi/ Rosewood Yamaha LL-16D- Spruce/ Rosewood in Black David Oddy Mandocello- Sitka/ Indian Rosewood G7th Capos and Elixir Nanoweb PB 13-56
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#9
07-07-2020, 01:57 AM
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#10
07-07-2020, 03:39 AM
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I have Grover 18:1 Sta-Tites on my Brook, and Waverleys on the two Martins. The Sta-Tites work at least as well as the Waves, possibly better AFAIC, And for less than half the cost.
The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.
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John Brook ‘Lamorna’ OM (European Spruce/EIR) (2019) Lowden F-23 (Red Cedar/Claro Walnut) (2017) Martin D-18 (2012) Martin HD-28V (2010) Fender Standard Strat (2017-MIM)
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#11
07-07-2020, 05:40 AM
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Hi Royboy,
As Wade said, the Gotoh 510s aren’t drop ins. I dropped a set of Sta-tites into my old 000 18 last year, and I’m pleased with them. I have Waverleys on my other 000 18—the Sta-tites do the job and are considerably less spendy.
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Peace, Jimmy Optima dies, prima fugit
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#12
07-07-2020, 07:52 AM
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Hi Roy. I have an Eastman E20-OM, and like you, bought it and went tuner shopping before the guitar even arrived. Be forewarned - Eastman glues the ping bushings into the headstock. Knocking them out took a bit of finish with it from the headstock. The screw holes didn't line up, so they had to be plugged and redrilled. The tuner holes were a little loose with the new bushings, so I had to put a drop of glue to hold them in place, which made perfect alignment nearly impossible. Adding insult to injury, the Schaller grand tunes turned out to be defective (2 of them) and the ones that worked still don't operate all that smoothly. (Schaller replaced the defective ones, no issues there) As it stands now, I think I'll need to take the guitar to a good tech and have them replace again with something with a solid shaft that can account for the oversized holes.
Long story short, the pings worked just fine and were smooth. If I had it to do over again, I'd just leave it the way it came. Hope this helps.
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#13
07-07-2020, 08:23 AM
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The Grandtunes look really beautiful, but I've seen complaints about them and others needing replacement.
I'd approach it with a beginner's mind. Forget that your E20D has Pings. They do have an 18 gear ratio. If they're smooth and accurate, I wouldn't open a can of worms for an improvement that might be elusive. However, you might see room for improvement, in which case enhancing your new toy is completely warranted.
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Eastman E1SS-CLA-LTD Eastman E1OOSS-LTD Cordoba Fusion Orchestra CE Cordoba SM-CE Mini Classical Acoustic Ibanez Blazer 21 MIJ Stratocaster 2 Yamaha PSR-SX900 keyboards I play professionally Roland FP-90 digital piano I play for pleasure with piano VSTs.
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#14
07-07-2020, 08:36 AM
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I agree with Beakybird - if the set of Pings on your Eastman work properly, there’s no need to replace them. But if they’re mediocre at best, which the set on my Eastman was, then go ahead and put on different tuners in their place.
whm
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#15
07-07-2020, 08:45 AM
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Having used both I wouldn't have thought the Grover sta-tites are better than the Gotohs... but in my experience they were.
If the pings on your Eastman are good then I wouldn't bother replacing them. If they do need replacement, go for the Grovers. Congrats on your new Eastman - I never met a E20D that I didn't like!
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Some guitars I currently own: 2018 Martin D41 2013 Alejandro Cervantes "Rodriguez Concert Classical" 2015 Martin HD28E Retro 2015 Gretsch 6128 Power Jet 2003 Amalio Burguet F1 concert flamenco 2010 Langejans R-cb classical 2019 Gibson 1958 true historic 2012 PRS Stripped '58 with 5708 pickups 1992 PRS CE24 (all original) Many including Gretsch, Tokai, Yamaha, and Fender.
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