About to sell Martin JC40. Replace saddle?

[russchapman]

It sounds like you're on the right path.

The results of your poll are troubling, imo.

[stevecuss]

Originally Posted by russchapman

It sounds like you're on the right path.

The results of your poll are troubling, imo.

Lol! I don't think anyone is proposing subterfuge by option 1. I understand the poll question is limited, but it infers full disclosure to potential buyers. With internet sales, I think it is always in a sellers best interest to disclose everything to avoid potential return hassle.

[russchapman]

Originally Posted by stevecuss

Lol! I don't think anyone is proposing subterfuge by option 1. I understand the poll question is limited, but it infers full disclosure to potential buyers. With internet sales, I think it is always in a sellers best interest to disclose everything to avoid potential return hassle.

I disagree. There is no inference of 'full disclosure' because you don't actually know what's up with the guitar. What would you be disclosing?

A vote for option 1 is saying that everything is ok as it is. I'm the lone vote that says no, it is not ok. And yes, I find that troubling that this community doesn't see that saddle as too low. Saddle height (assuming the correct relief) is a big deal.

Keep us posted on what your tech says.

[stevecuss]

Originally Posted by russchapman

I disagree. There is no inference of 'full disclosure' because you don't actually know what's up with the guitar. What would you be disclosing?

A vote for option 1 is saying that everything is ok as it is. I'm the lone vote that says no, it is not ok.

And yes, I find that troubling that this community doesn't see that saddle as too low. Saddle height (assuming the correct relief) is a big deal.

No worries Russ, I don't want to split hairs - I hear you, but I think if you read through several comments from folks so far, saying variations of 'let the new owner decide' they are not saying, 'everything is ok.' They are implying that showing photos gives the new potential owner information and I would at least have stated that the guitar may or may not need a neck reset. When I bought the guitar, I bought it with that possibility in mind as well, but I'm out of my depth of knowing if it does or if the prior owner simply loved super low action and a proper saddle and truss rod set up will declare the guitar as all fine.

At any rate, I've gotten enough input to realize I need a professional opinion which is what will happen before the sale. I've got a msg into my luthier to drop it off for inspection and options.

best wishes

[russchapman]

Originally Posted by stevecuss

No worries Russ, I don't want to split hairs - I hear you, but I think if you read through several comments from folks so far, saying variations of 'let the new owner decide' they are not saying, 'everything is ok.' They are implying that showing photos gives the new potential owner information and I would at least have stated that the guitar may or may not need a neck reset. When I bought the guitar, I bought it with that possibility in mind as well, but I'm out of my depth of knowing if it does or if the prior owner simply loved super low action and a proper saddle and truss rod set up will declare the guitar as all fine.

At any rate, I've gotten enough input to realize I need a professional opinion which is what will happen before the sale. I've got a msg into my luthier to drop it off for inspection and options.

best wishes

Sounds good, Steve.

That said, if you followed the advice of your poll, then everything is just fine as it is (by a margin of 8 to 1).

[JonWint]

Is this a game?

Why don't you measure the relief, action, and the string height above the top?

The low saddle indicates little to no remaining adjustment before reset is required. However, every comment is a guess without actual measurements.

Martin used 2 or 3 different bridge heights. If the bridge is tall, then some adjustment may exist if it were shaved down.

[stevecuss]

Originally Posted by JonWint

Is this a game?

Why don't you measure the relief, action, and the string height above the top?

The low saddle indicates little to no remaining adjustment before reset is required. However, every comment is a guess without actual measurements.

Martin used 2 or 3 different bridge heights. If the bridge is tall, then some adjustment may exist if it were shaved down.

Lol, not a game. It is now at my luthier for inspection and advice.

[stevecuss]

Final follow up. My guitar is back from the Luthier. Here's the update for any rabidly curious folk:

- Saddle was in backward/reversed. Doesn't need a new saddle, still room to lower saddle if needed.

- treble action is good, bass action is fractionally lower than standard but good.

- Neck relief is good - more truss rod adjustment is available.

Greg's overall assessment 'action is low and clean, neck won't need a reset for several more years.'

Now I have to get a sense of value and put it on Reverb.

thanks everyone.

[Earl49]

Good report Steve. I did not yote, but my reaction was "don't go looking for trouble where none exists". A backwards saddle can happen. As for value, I sold a 1990 J-40 in VGC with a recent neck reset and an aftermarket Fishman Matrix I pickup for $2000 a couple of years ago. It was listed on my local CL for $2200 and I settled for 10% less than the asking price. The buyer wanted a gigging guitar to avoid putting his SCGC dreadnought at risk, and he got a good one. I loved the tone but sold it because the 1-11/16" nut width and Martin neck carve no longer agreed with my fretting hand.

[stevecuss]

Originally Posted by Earl49

Good report Steve. I did not yote, but my reaction was "don't go looking for trouble where none exists". A backwards saddle can happen. As for value, I sold a 1990 J-40 in VGC with a recent neck reset and an aftermarket Fishman Matrix I pickup for $2000 a couple of years ago. It was listed on my local CL for $2200 and I settled for 10% less than the asking price. The buyer wanted a gigging guitar to avoid putting his SCGC dreadnought at risk, and he got a good one. I loved the tone but sold it because the 1-11/16" nut width and Martin neck carve no longer agreed with my fretting hand.

Thanks Earl, my son is begging me not to sell it - it is a magnificent sounding guitar, but I now have an Eastman OM coming in with torrified top and I'm a 'one in, one out' guy to keep me sane and my bank account in shape.

I was thinking around $2500 final price seems about right. This one has been a closet classic - very very clean. Norms Rare Guitars is asking north of $3k for a non cutaway version same year, but that seems quite high to me. We'll see.

[justonwo]

I disagree with that tech’s assessment. That saddle is very low, even when you account for the fact that it was installed backwards. Unless the guitar has a crazy amount of relief, it looks like that guitar is near neck-reset territory. Regardless, it’s a lousy setup. The photo looks like the guitar has excessive relief and the saddle has been lowered too much to compensate. This results a “U” shape in the action profile and buzzing in the high frets.

Most buyers won’t be hip to that even if they see photos. That’s one reason I always ask relief, action, and saddle height above the bridge before ever considering a guitar. I wouldn’t sell this guitar in the current condition if it were mine. I would get proper relief (somewhere around 0.005-0.006”) and install a new saddle. I would hope the new saddle would be about 1/8” off the top of the bridge.

What is the relief right now?

Also, the very low action at the first fret is likely the result of very low nut slots.

Someone that plays a bit heavy handed (like me) would likely not be able to use this guitar without replacing the saddle and nut. And unless that person is educated about guitar setup (likely not), they will be in for an unpleasant surprise when they have to shell out for a new saddle and nut.

[justonwo]

This picture makes it look like the action is lower at the last fret than the 12th. That would be an indication of too much relief and too low a saddle. Am I seeing it right?

IMG_3629 by steveandlisa123, on Flickr[/QUOTE]

[lowrider]

Third question that I meant to ask earlier;

If you put a 24 inch straight edge on the fretboard, where does it hit the bridge?

How long have you had this guitar?

[gmel555]

Originally Posted by russchapman

I would hope we can all agree that selling a guitar that may need a neck reset, and not disclosing that information is dishonest, regardless of the photos that you include in your listing.

I agree with above. My understanding is that lowering the saddle can stave off the reset for a while, but as your photos show, at some point no further lowering is possible and if the neck "declines' further a full reset is the next step. I've seen some guitars where the bridge has actually been shaved down a bit to give the impression of more saddle being left and also to increase string break angle. I've had this discussion with my local guitar shop and, just as russc says above, this shop owner would not sell a used guitar at this stage without disclosing it.

[stevecuss]

Originally Posted by gmel555

I agree with above. My understanding is that lowering the saddle can stave off the reset for a while, but as your photos show, at some point no further lowering is possible and if the neck "declines' further a full reset is the next step. I've seen some guitars where the bridge has actually been shaved down a bit to give the impression of more saddle being left and also to increase string break angle. I've had this discussion with my local guitar shop and, just as russc says above, this shop owner would not sell a used guitar at this stage without disclosing it.

Interesting. My luthier who is a previous Martin Warranty Repair guy says that a step before the reset is a refret because Martin has several fret tang sizes that can help with neck issues and then of course a reset next.

To the questions of dimensions and 2' straight edge, unfortunately I don't have the tools to measure and report back, but what is clear to me is some strongly believe a neck reset is imminent, my Luthier believes it is not having inspected it. I think my best and simplest path forward is to disclose all of that in the ad and let the buyer decide. No doubt wary buyers will either avoid it or faction a reset into their offer. Others won't. My interest is in disclosing what I know to a buyer can be informed and happy.