explain why a note is the same but not exactly.

Blaze vancouver · #1 11-16-2004, 10:42 AM

My friend only plays by tabs and I was going to give him a few lessons because he wants to solo on his own. I am going to teach him the pent. scale but I thought I would start real slow.

I am fairly new to guitar my self and would like some help to explain the Italic part of the lesson I am planning.

Any other comments or sugestions for the lesson would be great!

Basic Theory Lesson

Section 1- A Fine Place To Start?

Below we have the only 12 notes of music, Yes that’s right there are only 12. All the wonderful music in the world is made up of only these 12 notes.

notes: A,Bb,B,C,C#,D,Eb,E,E#,F#,G,G#

Don’t let the (b) or the (#) confuse you, we will get into what they mean shortly.

Each fret on the guitar when fretted (to push down a string to the freatbord) or played open (not fretting a note and just playing the string own) is creating one of the notes displayed above.

For example:

-The A string (the second string from the top) is called the A string because when played on its own it produces the A note.

When we tune it we tune it to the A note.

As you go down from the neck (the top of the guitar) on the A string (the second string from the top) the notes are as followed.

notes: A,Bb,B,C,C#,D,Eb,E,E#,F#,G,G#

So the string by itself is an A, fret 1 is a Bb; fret 2 is a B and so on.

Hey look! It’s the same as above. It’s just the musical notes going down the string.

Once you reach the 12 fret on the A string the pattern starts again.

So the 13th fret on the A string is Bb and the 14th fret is B and so on.

OK! Try playing the 1st fret on the A string, then the 2nd fret one after another. Ok have you done this, great! Now play the 13 fret then the 14 fret one after another.

Wow, they sound the same; this is because they are the same note.

Although they are the same notes they do not sound exactly the same because………

Please help me explain this. I think it has something to do with pitch or octaves or something. What’s the science behind it why does it come back to the same sound and not go on forever?

So when the pro’s play crazy solo’s at the bottom of the neck, they are only doing things they all ready know for the top of the neck. The guitar just repeats it self form the 12th fret down.

Ok, now for the E string (top string) what would the notes be going down the neck?

Notes: E,F,F#,G,G#,A,Bb,B,B#,C#,D,D#

You guessed it all the 12 notes but starting from E because the string is tunes to an E.

weelie · #2 11-16-2004, 10:53 AM

Yes, it's an octave higher in pitch. Octa means Eight, like in October (which was originally the eight month back in the Roman times), so it's eight "steps" of the major scale (2,2,1,2,2,2,1 being the steps in order, in # of frets, summing up to 12, of course) higher than the previous tone of the same name.

I'd start by teaching the open position Basic box Em or G first. (Then following with the other 4 boxes.). For Em it's easy as E-barre chord is the most common, and the 1st box is easy to see from that.

And Major pentatonic is a rather logical pattern in all five boxes if you think of the CAGED chords. The C,A,G,E,D being the five open major chord. Put them one after another on the fretboard, and the 5 boxes kind of build themselves around it. And this way you see the most important tones (root, third and fifth, let's say) more easily.

Bob Womack · #3 11-16-2004, 10:55 AM

It does have to do with octaves. A note one octave higher than another is exactly twice the pitch of it. Example, A440 has as its first octave A880. Pitch is described by the number of times the wave cycles per second and the term Herz, or Hz., is used for cycles per second.

Bob

deltoid · #4 11-16-2004, 12:02 PM

If you really want to be confused, read this article >>

http://www.acousticfingerstyle.com/gtartuning.htm

Also keep in mind that music theory is built upon accepted standards that are centuries old. Why is the first musical note called a "A". That's just the accepted standard. That's what people have agreed on.

Why isn't a piano tuned to perfect pitch? ..because we're so used to hearing it slightly out of tune,... if it were tuned perfectly it would sound horrible and grate on your ears.

We have 26 lettes in our alphabet because we have all agreed on it over the centuries. It's now a standard.

underwhelmed · #5 11-16-2004, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blaze vancouver

Below we have the only 12 notes of music, Yes that’s right there are only 12. All the wonderful music in the world is made up of only these 12 notes.

notes: A,Bb,B,C,C#,D,Eb,E,E#,F#,G,G#

Don’t let the (b) or the (#) confuse you, we will get into what they mean shortly.

In the sequence here, you say E# when it would probably be a lot easier to say F. You have the same thing again a bit later (although at the end you have it listed as F). Just thought it might be easier if you changed it to use the note with no accidental whenever possible.

It may also be more helpful if when you're naming the notes like this you stick with using either all sharps or all flats, and possibly show both ways and explain that they're the same thing.

ie.
A A# B C C# D D# E F F# G G# A
or
A Bb B C Db D Eb E F Gb G Ab A

Just a thought.

cpmusic · #6 11-17-2004, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by underwhelmed

It may also be more helpful if when you're naming the notes like this you stick with using either all sharps or all flats, and possibly show both ways and explain that they're the same thing.

ie.
A A# B C C# D D# E F F# G G# A
or
A Bb B C Db D Eb E F Gb G Ab A

I don't mean to confuse matters, but while you have the right idea about using either sharps or flats to name notes up the fretboard, it's not really accurate to say that they're the same thing. They sound the same on a fixed pitch instrument, but that's because of tempered tuning, and in theory they're still considered separate notes. In the key of A major, for example, the third note of the scale is never referred to as Db.

This is probably more than most people want to know, but in a course of music theory, it's an important matter.

underwhelmed · #7 11-17-2004, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpmusic

I don't mean to confuse matters, but while you have the right idea about using either sharps or flats to name notes up the fretboard, it's not really accurate to say that they're the same thing. They sound the same on a fixed pitch instrument, but that's because of tempered tuning, and in theory they're still considered separate notes. In the key of A major, for example, the third note of the scale is never referred to as Db.

This is probably more than most people want to know, but in a course of music theory, it's an important matter.

Er.. I just meant that in the context of spelling out a chromatic scale, rather than at all times.

But yes, when naming the notes of a diatonic scale you need to use every note name and base the system of sharps and flats off that (which will always mean a major scale has either sharps OR flats in it, not both).

Same thing goes for the natural minor scale (harmonic/melodic minor scales have raised seventh / sixth and seventh degrees, which will sometimes introduce a sharp into a flat key scale).

But all this probably isn't really helping with the original poster's question

As others said, a note an octave higher is twice the frequency of the original, but it's probably easier to just explain by examples. Play a small melody near the nut and then play it an octave higher and then two octaves higher. You should be able to hear that they're the same sound.

If you want / can, use a power-chord type shape without the 5 (like 2x4xxx or x5x7xx etc.) to play two octaves at once.

Hope this helps!

cpmusic · #8 11-17-2004, 04:59 PM

Sorry 'bout that, Underwhelmed -- no offense was intended. I've found that any discussion of sharps and flats leads to questions about them, like why we have a lot of cases of two notes with the same pitch, but you're right that it was off-track.

underwhelmed · #9 11-17-2004, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpmusic

Sorry 'bout that, Underwhelmed -- no offense was intended. I've found that any discussion of sharps and flats leads to questions about them, like why we have a lot of cases of two notes with the same pitch, but you're right that it was off-track.

Oh, none taken. And it's an interesting discussion, but perhaps needlessly confusing for the purposes

wthurman · #10 11-17-2004, 08:11 PM

Well, it really gets interesting when you have things like double-flats and double sharps, which show up in some keys and in odd places... particularly more common in classical music.

Say you're in the key of F# major, which is built:

F# - G# - A# - B - C# - D# - E# - F#

Then you play an F# major chord, which is built around an F# - A# - C# triad, followed by an F# augmented chord, which is an F# - A# - C## triad. Although on a piano keyboard, C## (the fifth, or dominant note) is played in exactly the same place as D, in music theory, an augmented chord is built using a sharped fifth (sharped dominant) and since the fifth is already C#, it becomes C##.

What fun!

Peace,

Wade