Schatten HFN Bandwagon? - Page 3

GuitarLuva · #31 03-17-2019, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Grenier

Really? Sounds like the exact opposite of what Schatten suggests: "The putty will transmit a little more of the highs and may be used if the instrument is dark or primarily bassy".

I am after the reverse. Less of the highs and more of the bass. Anyway, I will try to move the HFN over to the bass side a bit more and I'll fiddle with EQ and see if I can get that "dark and bassy" sound out of my 000.

It's all good fun in the end. Cheers!

Yeah I put the HFN in a dread and a jumbo so far, which are bigger than your 000. It might explain why the putty was better for me but who knows. There is a really old thread on here somewhere that mentions the pickup used to only ship with putty and no tape, that is something else to keep in mind. There is no doubt though that both mediums provide different tone in the end and sometimes a little experimenting with both might help. Sounds like you have your issue worked out already.

jonfields45 · #32 03-17-2019, 02:56 PM

I just finished an HFN installation into my RainSong Concert Parlor. The good news is it sounds great with a bit of bass boost and treble cut (the volume setting was chosen to match the output level of my MiSi Trio in my other parlor).

I don't have a K&K guitar handy for comparison, but from memory the K&K wins for not needing any equalization to sound reasonable. The HFN wins for sounding astoundingly good after EQ. I often don't bother with EQ (I know not an AGF kind of thing to do), so I am disappointed that without EQ it sounds a bit thin. The string balance is however excellent. I am curious to see if the basic EQ on my mixer is good enough to fix it up. I'll be trying that soon.

Here are some shots of my install. I decided to make yet another K&K like tool for this job...

SpruceTop · #33 03-17-2019, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonfields45

I just finished an HFN installation into my RainSong Concert Parlor. The good news is it sounds great with a bit of bass boost and treble cut (the volume setting was chosen to match the output level of my MiSi Trio in my other parlor).

I don't have a K&K guitar handy for comparison, but from memory the K&K wins for not needing any equalization to sound reasonable. The HFN wins for sounding astoundingly good after EQ. I often don't bother with EQ (I know not an AGF kind of thing to do), so I am disappointed that without EQ it sounds way too bright. The string balance is however excellent. I am curious to see if the basic EQ on my mixer is good enough to fix it up. I'll be trying that soon.

Here are some shots of my install. I decided to make yet another K&K like tool for this job...

Jon, from what dealer did you order your HFN? Thanks.

guitaniac · #34 03-17-2019, 04:45 PM

Thanks for the report, Jon.

Every installation seems to be its own adventure. I've had a few rigs that only sound good with considerable EQ correction, so I can identify with that particular annoyance. In my own case, a Zoom A3 preamp has been a big help with the EQ challenges. I can create up to twenty different EQ programs to accommodate a variety of guitars. It has a six band graphic EQ and a two band parametric EQ which can be used in series and pre-programmed. Beyond that, it also has an additional three band EQ for "quick and dirty" adjustments at the gig.

AeroUSA · #35 03-17-2019, 06:21 PM

How do you make the jig?

The Kid! · #36 03-17-2019, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonfields45

I don't have a K&K guitar handy for comparison, but from memory the K&K wins for not needing any equalization to sound reasonable.

That's the opposite of my findings. I feel that the K&K is pretty guitar and install dependent, and needs some definite help with EQ and a good pre to sound decent.

The HFN sounds more natural off the bat, but does benefit from a good EQ.

jonfields45 · #37 03-17-2019, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Jon, from what dealer did you order your HFN? Thanks.

I got it from Blue Star Music.

jonfields45 · #38 03-17-2019, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

How do you make the jig?

Just the standard K&K jig widened up to the full width of a saddle. I did not have any scrap material handy so I made my own plywood out of 5 layers of 20 mil Sapele veneer. I could use it in the future to do a K&K install with a one step glue all three heads. I used standard Scotch poster tape to hold the HFN to the jig.

jonfields45 · #39 03-17-2019, 07:51 PM

It could be the power of just wanting it to be so, but the sound with no EQ now sounds pretty good to me and I've backed off the EQ to just a little extra bass...

jonfields45 · #40 03-18-2019, 01:32 PM

I set up my mixer using the Boss GE-7 bypassed for impedance matching putting the RainSong Parlor HFN into one of my Yamaha mixer line channels (only bass and treble controls). With the bass at 3 o'clock and the treble at 10 o'clock I am achieving similar EXCELLENT results as with the GE-7.

I did email Schatten and here is my exchange with Les. He replied the very next morning.

Me:

I just finished a tape install of a passive HFN in a RainSong carbon fiber Parlor. With a Boss GE-7 set to (roughly) +5 dB @ 100 Hz, +3 dB @ 200 Hz, -2dB @ 6400 Hz it sounds GREAT! However, unlike a K&K Mini (which no amount of equalization short of a Tonedextor will make it sound as good), it sounds way too bight without equalization. I can send pictures of my installation. Should I attempt a reinstall with putty? Before installation I put the HFN on a straight edge and the middle foot was a few mils taller than the outer ones. I did use a jig to make sure the HFN is exactly centered and directly under the guitar's saddle. Thanks! Jon

Les:

If the pickup base center foot is out by a few mils then either the tape or the putty should make up for any discrepancy. I apologize for it being out. If it is out significantly, then a quick flat sand of the pickup base should clear that. There may be a small tonal difference between a putty mount and the VHB mount. I'm not sure just how much of a difference it will make in a carbon fiber instrument. Personally I prefer to use the VHB for the security it provides in the mounting.

I've just spent the past couple of weeks (on and off) working with carbon fiber violins and their associated pickups and the entire dynamic of the things is really different from normal wood bodies. I too found that I had to EQ a pickup on the carbon fiber instrument while I didn't have to do that on the wood body.

And in conclusion:

In the interest of not letting the pursuit of perfection screw up what has got to be the best single source acoustic guitar pickup I've ever tried, I'll leave it alone. I was planning to keep that Boss GE-7 in the case regardless.

jonfields45 · #41 03-22-2019, 03:47 PM

I've made the rounds of a few acoustic guitar amps with the HFN install in my RainSong parlor and the EQ required is easily achieved with the typical bass and treble controls of an amp.

DownUpDave · #42 03-22-2019, 05:47 PM

jonesfield45.......thanks for the detailed install info and your findings. I was wondering if carbon might act a bit different and it is nice to know Les verified that. As with everything individual instruments can react differently with the same pick up.

It is really good to hear you are getting excellent results through multi amps with little EQ. I appreciate all the feedback and am close to pulling the trigger on a couple HFNs. Might even get one for my Cordoba C10 nylon string. Just undecided between active and passive.

Ten · #43 03-22-2019, 09:22 PM

I’m curious how high folks are turning the input gain on the active version of preamp circuit board?

GuitarLuva · #44 03-22-2019, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ten

I’m curious how high folks are turning the input gain on the active version of preamp circuit board?

Most people report buying the passive version. The active version comes from the factory set at 20% of maximum gain. If it were me I would crank it up until I hear distortion and than back it off about 10% from there.

Ten · #45 03-23-2019, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Most people report buying the passive version. The active version comes from the factory set at 20% of maximum gain. If it were me I would crank it up until I hear distortion and than back it off about 10% from there.

The instructions indicate to install the jack, set the gain, then install the pickup. Seems like the adjustments will be more difficult after the jack is installed, and I’m not sure how to test optimal levels if the pickup isn’t installed yet. Hoping for a method that doesn’t require taking strings off and on between each adjustment.

Perhaps install the pickup first, leaving the jack outside the guitar, play with the levels, then one unstring/install jack and wires last, restring?