Mics with the Kodak Zi8

[Fran Guidry]

Finally got my busted Zi8 replaced, got home from an extended stay in Kailua, and put together a comparison of mics. I used the camera mic, the Zoom H2, a couple of mics from Sound Professionals, an Audio-Technica AT825 and Pro 24. I did some audio-only clips with a recorded source for consistency. The whole story is a blog post on Homebrewed Music:

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2010/...-the-kodak-zi8

I couldn't resist doing a video because editing with Edius is so much fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-RR_RDgS0A

Fran

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

Finally got my busted Zi8 replaced, got home from an extended stay in Kailua, and put together a comparison of mics. I used the camera mic, the Zoom H2, a couple of mics from Sound Professionals, an Audio-Technica AT825 and Pro 24. I did some audio-only clips with a recorded source for consistency. The whole story is a blog post on Homebrewed Music:

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2010/...-the-kodak-zi8

I couldn't resist doing a video because editing with Edius is so much fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-RR_RDgS0A

Fran

Hey Fran,
Thank you so much for doing that!

As I listened to the first mic built in to the Kodak unit, I thought that it was just fine, and when I heard the H2 mic, I thought it was too boomy.

However the rest of the mics were nice improvements, though a little bass heavy for my taste. The Zi8 is quite a nice piece.

I did check it out on Amazon, and I always check the 1star ratings to read the complaints first............Ouch! I have a hard time believing that anyone would buy this camera given the problems.

Yes, I saw the quality of your video on youtube and it looked very, very good, so what am I missing? Were there improvements made to the unit after its initial release?

I place a lot of trust in your opinions, Fran. You're a good guy to have around!

Best regards,
Howard Emerson

[Gutch]

Thanks a bunch for the samples and info! My Zi8 arrived yesterday and I'm doing a test with my H4 as a mic. That little SoundPros sure seemed to be a winner...

Thanks again!!!

[Doug Young]

Nice demos, Fran. I assume you didn't EQ any audio here, so there's lots of room to adjust to taste. The H2 and mic tracks sounded pretty on my studio monitors, tho, as-is.

Howard, quite a few people here have the Zi8, and seem to have no issues, myself included. I've been shooting most of my recent AG video demos with one, and it was a huge step up in quality from my previous (pricier) DV cameras. I've used the Tascam TM-ST2 mic, which looks vaguely similar to Fran's AT mic, with good results with the Zi8, tho I usually just record the audio separately and sync it later.

[mesa]

WOW.... great job Fran, your a Gem! Thanks for all the work you put into this...and its always a pleasure listening to your tunes. Like Howard, I liked the Zi8 mic the best.

Howard, I was aware of the negative feed back on the camera but bought it after seeing Frans videos. I got mine (Dec 09) mostly for hiking, back country skiing and snowshoeing. The size is perfect and I got a 32GB card for it. I've taken many falls with it and have been buried in the snow a few times in the past few months. It's still working with no hiccups...yet

This is the first video I took with it. It's a bit shaky because I'm moving forward on back country skis

http://www.youtube.com/user/snowshoe.../1/2NVaBditiOs

[66strummer]

Sounds to me like they're right in order of sound quality, Fran. The last 2 are superb especially the AT! Thanks for the demo.....

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

...

As I listened to the first mic built in to the Kodak unit, I thought that it was just fine, and when I heard the H2 mic, I thought it was too boomy.

Howard, I wish you could have been sitting in the room. The "thumpy" sound at the start of each note and the muddy color are due to overdriving the Zi8, even though I had all the major settings on minimum. I should have done what LJ did and turn down the headphone output.

However the rest of the mics were nice improvements, though a little bass heavy for my taste. The Zi8 is quite a nice piece.

You may still be hearing the Zi8 compressing, I'm never sure with this thing.

I did check it out on Amazon, and I always check the 1star ratings to read the complaints first............Ouch! I have a hard time believing that anyone would buy this camera given the problems.

Yes, I saw the quality of your video on youtube and it looked very, very good, so what am I missing? Were there improvements made to the unit after its initial release?

Actually I believe there were. It was announced and shipped last spring, but suddenly disappeared from the market after a dreadful reception. It returned to the market in September when I bought mine. It's still far from high fidelity, just take a listen to the tracks at the Homebrewed Music blog post. But one of the dirty secrets of video is that almost all camera sound eats. It takes multi-kbucks to get decent audio, and anyone who can uses parallel recording.

Originally Posted by Gutch

Thanks a bunch for the samples and info! My Zi8 arrived yesterday and I'm doing a test with my H4 as a mic. That little SoundPros sure seemed to be a winner...

My concern with the little t-mics is that they may overload the Zi8 if the source gets loud. And when the Zi8 gets overloaded I don't enjoy the sound as much. For strictly acoustic stuff, where stereo is no big deal, I agree that the t-mics are cool.

Using something like the Zoom also raises the issue of keeping the incoming levels down. After all, the input on the Zi8 is a mic input so it's expecting a very low level of signal. LJ used the headphone volume to attenuate the signal and I think that's a good idea.

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Nice demos, Fran. I assume you didn't EQ any audio here, so there's lots of room to adjust to taste. The H2 and mic tracks sounded pretty on my studio monitors, tho, as-is.

Right, Doug, no tweaking of levels, EQ, verb, just straight from the Zi8. Thanks for the mention in your AG article on video. I honestly thought it was one of the best "techie your music" articles I've seen, and not just because my name is in it, really!

Originally Posted by mesa

...Like Howard, I liked the Zi8 mic the best.

Howard, I was aware of the negative feed back on the camera but bought it after seeing Frans videos. I got mine (Dec 09) mostly for hiking, back country skiing and snowshoeing. The size is perfect and I got a 32GB card for it. I've taken many falls with it and have been buried in the snow a few times in the past few months. It's still working with no hiccups...yet

This is the first video I took with it. It's a bit shaky because I'm moving forward on back country skis

http://www.youtube.com/user/snowshoe.../1/2NVaBditiOs

I can't tell you how embarrassed I was by my Zi8's problems and Kodak's failure to fix them. Several people mentioned me when they bought their cams and I could just picture them when the audio stopped working. Thankfully it appeared to be a somewhat isolated problem, and after posting a bunch of YouTube clips of the problem I got a new unit.

Now for your back country, outdoorsy stuff, did I tell you about my new Panasonic Lumix TS1, waterproof dustproof dropproof (to 5 feet if it lands on 3/4" plywood - be careful where you drop it) point and shoot with 720p HD??

My sweetie is already counting cameras and proclaiming that I've moved on to a new obsession. Even my mic purchases these days are aimed at video - hmmmm, maybe she's right.

Originally Posted by 66strummer

Sounds to me like they're right in order of sound quality, Fran. The last 2 are superb especially the AT! Thanks for the demo.....

Thanks 66, and since you agree with me you must be right!!! <grin>

Fran

[SimplyLuo]

Great read! I'm still considering the Zi8 so this will help
Thanks!

[mesa]

>snip<

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

Now for your back country, outdoorsy stuff, did I tell you about my new Panasonic Lumix TS1, waterproof dustproof dropproof (to 5 feet if it lands on 3/4" plywood - be careful where you drop it) point and shoot with 720p HD??

Your killing me Fran.....but I'm all ear's! How about we trade some of that Kailua sunshine for the Grand Mesa snow

curt

[Teleplucker]

Thanks for the info, very informative. I ordered a Zi8 yesterday, looks like it will be fun to play around with.

[anton]

Great thread, and i really enjoyed the article on your blog Fran, as well as Doug's article on AG. I need to get a Zi8 as well.

If i use my Zoom H4 and record in parallel do you think that is worth the extra effort vs just plugging it directly into the Zi8? I thought your Zoom H2 plugged into the camera sounded good enough, and i think Zenpicker here did a video where he used that method, and it sounded great. I'll have to get one and experiment.


Anton

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by Teleplucker

Thanks for the info, very informative. I ordered a Zi8 yesterday, looks like it will be fun to play around with.

A friend of mine just told me that he learned a lot from a video I shot of him. Video is a powerful tool as well as a lot of fun.

Originally Posted by anton

Great thread, and i really enjoyed the article on your blog Fran, as well as Doug's article on AG. I need to get a Zi8 as well.

If i use my Zoom H4 and record in parallel do you think that is worth the extra effort vs just plugging it directly into the Zi8? I thought your Zoom H2 plugged into the camera sounded good enough, and i think Zenpicker here did a video where he used that method, and it sounded great. I'll have to get one and experiment.


Anton

I absolutely think it's worth the extra effort to do parallel recording. I thought the difference between the blog clips for the Zoom and the Zi8 were very telling. Syncing is pretty easy, especially if you simply clap facing the camera. This gives you an excellent reference mark for aligning the audio and video. There's free software available to do the editing. For a single take the additional effort is pretty small. The real value of recording with the clip comes when you're piecing together dozens of takes, something that most of us do very little.

On the other hand, it's nice not to have to think about transferring, naming, tweaking, and syncing audio.

Fran

[Steve Berger]

There's free software available to do the editing

Hi Fran . . . like many other folks, I have really enjoyed your informative posts (and all of your wonderful music). Curious though, what is the free editing software your recommend?

Also, I have a Rode NT4 stereo condenser mic (two XLR connectors) and a Rode NT2A mono condenser mic (single XLR connector). Will I be able to use either mic (connect either mic) to the Z18, and if can, I assume I will need a preamp for phantom power . . correct?