made in Nazareth.....

[Big Band Guitar]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Learn something new everyday .....I had no clue that guitars were assembled at Lake Powell

Yes they are.

They are assembled underwater because the humidity is too low on land.

[Johnny K]

Originally Posted by Big Band Guitar

Yes they are.

They are assembled underwater because the humidity is too low on land.

The factory only runs during spring break on a very large barge and they pay in beer and weed.

[frankmcr]

Per California state law at this time, a product can't be labeled "Made In USA" unless at least 95% of its components were made in the USA.

This is actually not at all far from the FTC requirement for "Made In USA", which is that "all or virtually all" of a product with that label must have been made in the US.

The thing is, recently people have been suing companies on the basis that they were deceived into buying a product labeled Made In USA when actually that product was not made here as much as they thought it was. Lawsuits like that are a pain to deal with, regardless of outcome, so some companies (like Martin) are changing their labels.

I just hope those D-28s & all really are being made in Naz, & not in Penn Allen or Zucksville!



Some legal stuff for those who like that sort of thing -

https://www.drinkerbiddle.com/insigh...n-usa-labeling

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/busi...standard#basic

[Johnny K]

Originally Posted by frankmcr

I just hope those D-28s & all really are being made in Naz, & not in Penn Allen or Zucksville!

Me too. I'd hate to think I'm going there for nothing.

Maybe they'll let me hug the person who carved my HD28V neck?

[gr81dorn]

The downside of this nonsense is the unnecessary arguments and conversations (and lawsuits and such) that it incites. However, with it, plus CITES, we've seen some makers start looking closer at more domestic options and that, despite veering from tradition, has a lot of upside.

Martin is now trying more stuff in Sycamore and Cherry. Walnut keeps creeping into everyone's stable of options. Bedell has (but i believe recently discontinued) their Earthsong series which was all USA materials (minus hardware probably) - they even used walnut for the fretboard, the bridge and the bridge pins and their Breedlove brand has been using local Myrtle for some time now. Makers are starting to see the writing on the wall and working to be ready for when it inevitably is impossible (or cost prohibitive) to use imported tropical hardwoods.

Bob Taylor has mentioned their exploration into VG Fir for necks as an alternative to Mahogany.

The biggest barrier will be buyers' (lack of) comfort with new materials and/or their demands to stick to traditional materials.

I think it's kinda cool and look forward to what a guitar will look like and be made of in 5 or 10 years.

[learner]

I think some day we're going to see death certificates that say: "Cause of Death -- PC."

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by learner

I think some day we're going to see death certificates that say: "Cause of Death -- PC."

Probably just about the time we see a marked rise in PC Phobia or "PCP" for short, given as the reason for shooting ones own foot.
No matter how hard I try I can't objectively find an actual problem with 'truth in labeling"

[gr81dorn]

Originally Posted by KevWind

No matter how hard I try I can't objectively find an actual problem with 'truth in labeling"

Who defines what’s true? Therein lies the problem. It’s clearly not that simple based on this perfectly unclear example. Is it made in the USA if all of the equipment used to make it comes from another country and all of the material? I’d probably say yes, except it couldn’t exist without those outside items so then no? It’s all marketing anyway. If Taylor thought you’d buy it, they’d make everything in Tecate for 100% sure because they’d be able to make the exact same product or less money.

[Nick S]

Electro-Harmonix has stopped putting "Made in NYC, USA" on their products even though they are still assembled in NYC.

[Jeff Scott]

Originally Posted by Big Band Guitar

Guitar made overseas.

Pickguard made overseas.

Install pickguard on guitar in Bullfrog AZ..

Made in Bullfrog AZ.

Never been to Bullfrog, AZ, but I have been here:

http://www.ghosttowns.com/states/nv/bullfrog.html

Not far from Rhyolite, which I have been to a few times:

http://www.ghosttowns.com/states/nv/rhyolite.html

[donlyn]

This goes back a way with me, when I used to work in the importing industry. It's much more than a California law thing. There are federal regulations that apply to imported products that require Country of Origin marking on almost every imported consumer-able item. It is also illegal to slap a 'made in USA' label on such items, especially after some simple non-functional cosmetic change after importation. I'll leave 'assembled in' to the lawyers, but that may be federally legal if done correctly. And the country of origin marking has to be legible to the ultimate consumer and in the same size lettering as any reference to any U.S. place-name (like Nazareth or USA).

As I remember it, there is no requirement to put 'USA' on a domestically manufactured product; it is entirely an option, but it better be a product of the USA by federal standards or there will be trouble. And it may not be legal to put 'made in Nazareth' on a product, simply because 'Nazareth' is not a country, and it may be misleading without further marking.

Once again, I'll leave it to the lawyers for current interpretations, but I don't think anything has drastically changed regarding this basic issue on the federal level.

Don

[icuker]

California's Unfair Competition statute states that for an item to be designated "Made in the USA," "any article, unit, or part thereof," has to be "entirely or substantially made, manufactured, or produced" in the U.S. The California Supreme Court has interpreted this rule to mean that a "Made in the USA" designation requires that 100% of every piece of every part in a product must be made in one of the 50 states. Martin guitars, despite the labors of 600 craftspeople in Nazareth, don't make the cut because they incorporate imported woods, Asian and European built tuners, and synthetic nuts and saddles from Canada.

=====I notice from above quote that the Law seemed to leave a little wiggle room but the courts put the hammer down making it absolute 100%.

[donlyn]

Originally Posted by Mrbirdog

made in Nazareth from materials sourced in.....Can anybody finish this ? I see it inside some Martin guitars

Mrbirdog

And the actual phrase 'made in Nazareth' may also be illegal in itself, while 'Assembled in Nazareth' is more possibly legal, but probably requires further info, like 'Nazareth USA' along with it.

Just putting something together doesn't count as 'made in'. I think the federally legal term is that a component has to undergo a substantial transformation in the process of manufacture to be considered a product of the United States.

Once again, call in the lawyers.

Importing is a hazardous business, and illegally imported (marked) items can be subject to seizure and destruction. No, I am not making this up. It is a reality.

Don

[LOSTVENTURE]

So it would be my understanding that there are no instruments, particularly guitars, made in the USA, per California thinking.
Can anybody think of a guitar company that does not get some part from somewhere outside of our borders?

[Gmountain]

Originally Posted by donlyn

And the actual phrase 'made in Nazareth' may also be illegal in itself, while 'Assembled in Nazareth' is more possibly legal, but probably requires further info, like 'Nazareth USA' along with it.

Just putting something together doesn't count as 'made in'. I think the federally legal term is that a component has to undergo a substantial transformation in the process of manufacture to be considered a product of the United States.

Once again, call in the lawyers.

Importing is a hazardous business, and illegally imported (marked) items can be subject to seizure and destruction. No, I am not making this up. It is a reality.

Don

It's seems like turning a few pieces of wood into a guitar is a pretty substantial transformation.

Anyway, my guitar says CF Martin & Co, Nazareth PA.

I guess I don't need to worry about the black helicopters tonight.