#1
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Fishman Matrix/Ellipse Blend v. K&K Pure Mini
I've just become the owner of a second-hand Collings D2H which had a Fishman Matrix/Ellipse Blend pickup system installed. It sounds very nice plugged through my Roland AC60, but I'm contemplating removing the Fishman and replacing it with a K&K Pure Mini, because...
1) I believe the Fishman adds weight and makes the guitar feel 'heavy' 2) I'm not a lover of USTs, on the grounds that a UST affects un-plugged tone 3) I don't like batteries in my instruments 4) I'm not happy with all the wiring snaking about inside the guitar, and other paraphernalia in the sound-hole 5) All of my other instruments have K&Ks installed Just wondering if there's anyone who has made this same change from Fishman as described to a K&K and, if so, what observations they can offer?
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John Brook ‘Lamorna’ OM (European Spruce/EIR) (2019) Lowden F-23 (Red Cedar/Claro Walnut) (2017) Martin D-18 (2012) Martin HD-28V (2010) Fender Standard Strat (2017-MIM) |
#2
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Shall I take that as a 'No' then?
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John Brook ‘Lamorna’ OM (European Spruce/EIR) (2019) Lowden F-23 (Red Cedar/Claro Walnut) (2017) Martin D-18 (2012) Martin HD-28V (2010) Fender Standard Strat (2017-MIM) |
#3
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I've had two guitars that I swapped out the installed pickups and replaced them with K&K's. For my ears, you can't beat a K&K Pure Mini and I too have them in all of my acoustics.
BTW, one of the guitars I swapped out was a Taylor 214 with their factory system. It made a HUGE improvement in tone when I put in the K&K. |
#4
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It sounds as though you have already made up your mind. I used the Matrix blend for years. I had the earlier version though where the gooseneck would never stay in place, pretty sure they updated that. Personally, I found the mic to be useless so it ended up just being a Matrix system. I don't mind batteries in my guitar and the weight thing shouldn't cause any tonal change. You are going to get better feedback rejection with the Matrix system but if you know the K&K well, maybe stick with it.
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#5
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About 60/40 in favour of ripping out the Fishman and going for the K&K, so my mind's not really made up. That's why I'm interested in the experiences and opinions of others who have done just that - if a bunch come along saying "No, don't do it!", it will probably sway me the other way.
It's the UST in the Fishman that I don't like, I believe that a guitar's acoustic tone must be negatively affected by a strip of 'stuff' between the saddle and the bridge. So I'm interested to hear about how removing the UST affected things.
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John Brook ‘Lamorna’ OM (European Spruce/EIR) (2019) Lowden F-23 (Red Cedar/Claro Walnut) (2017) Martin D-18 (2012) Martin HD-28V (2010) Fender Standard Strat (2017-MIM) |
#6
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I don't really think the ust has an adverse effect on the tone, unless it's badly fitted. I've said it before the Fishman's are seriously under-rated. I think they just need to be properly EQ's to get a good sound out of them. My favorite EQ for them is the PARA EQ by Empress.
As for the UST changing tone, I've done quite a few pickup experiments with my oldest Martin, and frankly I've never heard it. And, I couldn't rip the K&K pickups out of my guitars fast enough (they came previously installed in 2 of my guitars, one in my Martin OM15, and the other in my Martin D17M, and I before that I tried one in my Parkwood LE061 and my old Martin), I always found them boxy with two exaggerated mid frequencies that never really reflected what was going on with my guitar top. And before you ask, I have tried every recommended preamp with the right impedance for the K&K, even internally mounting their own Tri-Star (which I felt was the best of all options but still lacking). I have found some magnetic sound-hole pickups, if heavy enough, damp the top a bit, but nothing drastic. I currently have a Matrix infinity combined with a rare earth in the sound-hole of my old Martin, which is extremely lightly built, and even with all that wiring, my Martin still sounds the same when recorded acoustically. I've had this guitar for over 20 years and I'm pretty aware of it's acoustic sound. Here it is... |
#7
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It is possible to get a good sound out of either pickup system. Both require compromise. The Matrix UST itself does not alter acoustic tone in my experience. I did not believe this at first. But, I have experimented with the Matrix. It seems to make no difference. The material appears to be similar density and hardness as the saddle itself. But, the preamp hanging off the soundboard can. The passive K&K is light weight and OK with the right equalization. The advantage of the Fishman is that it is plug and play direct to the amplification. The K&K will take a DI Preamp and you still might not love the tone. It’s a trial and error process. The K&K will take the weight out of the guitar for sure. But the results you want are not guaranteed.
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"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday." Last edited by martingitdave; 04-16-2018 at 12:44 PM. |
#8
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I have K&Ks in all four of my guitars. They work exceptionally if you have a good preamp and EQ. I have used a Fireye Red Eye for years and stuck an EQ pedal in the loop to pull out mids and a bit of bass and boost the trebles.
I’ve just transitioned to the ToneDexter and am dialing it in but it’s very promising. Bottom line, the K&K is great. Super light weight and no batteries to hassle with. If you know it’s weaknesses and compensate accordingly, it’ll deliver stellar results.
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2022 Martin D-18 Authentic 1937 VTS 2019 Guild F-512E 2016 Martin D-28 Authentic 1937 VTS 2015 Gibson J-45 Vintage 2007 Gibson SJ-200 True Vintage |
#9
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** I have the M80 in my D-18 100% of the time. I've tested the affect on the unplugged tone many times, no difference. It is not a heavy mag like the Sunrise which may dampen a top a little. A well tweaked M80 sounds very warm and articulate with excellent feedback resistance. *** My other buddy and fellow local full-time musician just bought a D-35, put in a K&K and we tested it out directly into my Loudbox. At lower usable cafe venue type volumes it sounded lovely. However, cranked up to the volumes I play at it becomes squirrelly and needs some out board help like a Platinum Pro or a Q-Strip. **** You may wanna try the Blend out for awhile and give it a college try, you have K&K equipped guitars so having a Blend may give you some nice alternative options in tone. The onboard controls are very stage-helpful imo. Best wishes, eric
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NOLE TUNES & Coastal Acoustic Music one love jam! Martin D18 & 3 lil' birdz; Takamine KC70, P3NC x 2 |
#10
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Thanks for the comments, all very useful and give me plenty to think about!
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FWIW, I have no problem with how the Fishman sounds, it's the battery and other internal clutter that's driving me nuts at the moment, together with my OCD about the UST possibly affecting un-plugged tone (and I guess the only way to lay that ghost would be to remove it, which sounds a bit like 'The Final and Irreversible Solution'!). Thanks for your help, and if anyone has anything further to contribute, please feel free, it all helps.
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John Brook ‘Lamorna’ OM (European Spruce/EIR) (2019) Lowden F-23 (Red Cedar/Claro Walnut) (2017) Martin D-18 (2012) Martin HD-28V (2010) Fender Standard Strat (2017-MIM) |
#11
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