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  #16  
Old 10-09-2021, 10:00 PM
goog64 goog64 is offline
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Originally Posted by Acousticado View Post
You may want to look into all Carbon Fiber tuning machines by Heart Sound. They weigh only 42 grams per set of 6. Thatís only 1.5 oz.! If those wonít work, I wonder if itíd be possible to 3-D print a set.

Thanks Tom.
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  #17  
Old 10-10-2021, 09:35 PM
goog64 goog64 is offline
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Well that was very interesting - I just went to a guitar shop for the first time in two years. I played all their tiny guitars:
Yamaha APXT2
Martin LXK2
Cort Earth mini
Fender Redondo mini
Gretsch Jim Dandy
Redding mini
Alvarez LJ2e

Boy, I loved how light they all were compared to my Journey OF-660. And the Martin, Alvarez and the Gretsch sounded reasonable but not great. But they all sounded boxier or banjo-like compared to the Journey. When I came home and played mine, it sounded SO much better than any in the shop, and ergonomically the shape feels so much better too.
Darn that weight! I'm going to go back to the drawing board and try to make my Journey even lighter!

Last edited by goog64; 10-11-2021 at 01:36 AM.
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  #18  
Old 10-11-2021, 09:41 AM
jdinaz jdinaz is offline
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Aren't those guitars you mention less than half the cost of the Journey? Not a fair comparison I say.
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  #19  
Old 10-11-2021, 10:02 AM
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The weight is most likely why the Journey sounds better to you than the wood ones. I doubt that removing as much of it as you can will adversely affect it to the point you can hear any difference. Iíve owned an Ď08 CA Cargo since new which have a reputation for great tone for their small size. Itís on the heavy side, but Iíve personally attributed the great tone in part due to its weight.
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  #20  
Old 10-11-2021, 02:42 PM
goog64 goog64 is offline
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Originally Posted by jdinaz View Post
Aren't those guitars you mention less than half the cost of the Journey? Not a fair comparison I say.
Good point. Although in blind tests I, and many others, often prefer the sound of a cheap guitar vs an expensive one.
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  #21  
Old 10-11-2021, 02:45 PM
goog64 goog64 is offline
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Originally Posted by Acousticado View Post
The weight is most likely why the Journey sounds better to you than the wood ones. I doubt that removing as much of it as you can will adversely affect it to the point you can hear any difference. Iíve owned an Ď08 CA Cargo since new which have a reputation for great tone for their small size. Itís on the heavy side, but Iíve personally attributed the great tone in part due to its weight.
I wondered about that, but with the weight I've taken off so far, I can't tell much difference but if I had to guess, I'd say it might sound even better being lighter. But that's probably just psychological.
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  #22  
Old 10-11-2021, 03:51 PM
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David Eastwood David Eastwood is offline
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Originally Posted by goog64 View Post
I wondered about that, but with the weight I've taken off so far, I can't tell much difference but if I had to guess, I'd say it might sound even better being lighter. But that's probably just psychological.
Have you weighed it yet with all the tuner knobs replaced? I'm fascinated to see what you've managed to shave off with all this effort.
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  #23  
Old 10-11-2021, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by David Eastwood View Post
Have you weighed it yet with all the tuner knobs replaced? I'm fascinated to see what you've managed to shave off with all this effort.
No, I'm still waiting for my friend to print the last 5 tuner knobs. I will definitely post the result here.
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  #24  
Old 10-11-2021, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ac View Post
....
[*]Zero fret added[*]No pins-pinless (use small, aluminum washers inside body)
I missed this the first time I read it. Can you please tell me why and how you added a zero fret?

And I've Googled that washer idea but can't find much. Can you please tell me about that?
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  #25  
Old 10-12-2021, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by goog64 View Post
I missed this the first time I read it. Can you please tell me why and how you added a zero fret?
Sure. All that you need is here:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=503810

Followed it exactly.

Why?
  1. Always had an interest in zero nuts after reading many forum and outside discussions about this.
  2. My particular OF660 has remarkable intonation with the saddle it came with and it's straight, non-intonated nut. Figured the zero nut would be fine.
  3. A couple strings were a tad high (not much) on the original nut.
  4. I have messed a lot with adjusting saddles, but very little with nuts. Didn't want to mess up my only nut and be forced to make a new one. The original was OK--I just wanted to make everything a tiny bit better.
  5. I was just lazy and trying a zero nut was no risk and at that time and only about $14. Amazon prices fluctuate up and down.
  • My strings are now where I want them
  • Sounds the same or a tad better overall (very subjective)
  • I enjoyed the satisfaction of the install process (still takes a bit of time and effort to do)

Last edited by ac; 10-12-2021 at 03:50 AM.
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  #26  
Old 10-12-2021, 03:06 AM
goog64 goog64 is offline
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Originally Posted by ac View Post
Sure. All that you need is here:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=503810

Followed it exactly.

Why?
  1. Always had an interest in zero nuts after reading many forum and outside discussions about this.
  2. My particular OF660 has remarkable intonation with the saddle it came with and it's straight, non-intonated nut. Figured the zero nut would be fine.
  3. A couple strings were a tad high (not much) on the original nut.
  4. I have messed a lot with adjusting saddles, but very little with nuts. Didn't want to mess up my only nut and be forced to make a new one. The original was OK--I just wanted to make everything a tiny bit better.
  5. I was just lazy and trying a zero nut was no risk and at that time and only about $14. Amazon prices fluctuate up and down.
  • My strings are now where I want them
  • Sounds the same or a tad better overall (very subjective)
  • I enjoyed the satisfaction of the install process (still takes a bit of time and effort to do)
Thanks ac, that's great info. I might try that washer idea under the bridge.
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  #27  
Old 10-12-2021, 03:39 AM
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And I've Googled that washer idea but can't find much. Can you please tell me about that?
For a period of time, AGF member murrmac123 created and sold kits to change any guitar to a pinless guitar--only about $5 at the time.

The "TECHNOFRET Alternate String Anchoring System". He had a lot of description on his eBay page. The kit came with aluminum washers and a long tube to help the installation on difficult to reach inside guitars.

He gave a long list of reason why this improves the stability and sound of the guitar. I won't add that here.

For me, I just liked the simplicity and clean looks of pin-less.

But by the time I began reading about this, he had already stopped selling the kits.

So I decided to find just the right size aluminum washers myself. It was not as easy as I thought. I only needed washers because the OF660 design made guiding a string up and through the pin holes using just my fingers, simple.

I did correspond with murrmac123 at the time to see if maybe he had just "one" more kit remaining--but no--he was through with all that.

I did the careful measurements needed to determine the inside and outside diameters of the washers needed. The outside diameter needed to be small enough not to touch or rest on the K&K pickup clones in the Journey.

With some difficulty, I found a supplier and ordered. It was a bit more expensive than if the kit had still been available--but not a deal breaker.

Notes on my washers:
  • From murrmac123 I learned from his many tests, aluminum worked best for a number of reasons. He would not use anything else.
  • My washers are maybe a bit thicker than I need--but they work great. I just wanted to be sure it wasn't too thin when I ordered. I didn't want to order twice and aluminum is easy to sand thinner if needed.
  • The outside washer diameter just reaches, but does not overlap one of the 3 Journey pickup sensors. If it had covered some of the sensor, the tightened pressure could maybe damage a sensor. If it had overlapped, I would have needed to sand a washer side back a bit to fit properly--easy to do with aluminum. But I didn't need to do a thing. It just works well and should work as well on any guitar.
  • My washer order was the minimum, but it gave me a lifetime supply for many guitars.
  • murrmac123 used 9mm diameter washers. I bought 8mm and it was perfect for the Journey. 9mm would have been too big.
---Brass ends on strings are about 3.95mm.
---about 3mm washer holes are best to keep the ball from slipping through.

You may be able to find just the washers you need at your local hardware store if you just want to do a test to see if you like it or not and choose steel. VERY cheap.

But I heeded murrmac123's advice and experience closely and wanted to stay with aluminum as he had tried them all. I could only find aluminum the right size with an online order. YMMV.

On my next string change, I've decided I will install the aluminum washers semi-permanently inside the guitar using rubber cement or some other type of removable glue. Then, when changing strings, I don't need to slip the washers on each string before threading the string through the hole. Misplacing them will not be possible.

Photos below:



Last edited by ac; 10-19-2021 at 02:35 AM.
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  #28  
Old 10-12-2021, 04:41 AM
goog64 goog64 is offline
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Wow! Thank you so much for that great information. I will definitely try this.
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  #29  
Old 10-16-2021, 05:39 PM
The Bard Rocks The Bard Rocks is offline
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Before I got a CF guitar, all my experiences with CF were things that were primarily purchased because they were lighter - bear canister, canoe, bicycle fork.... And now we have an all CF guitar with a 12" lower bout that weighs as much as a full-size wood guitar. I am trying to wrap my head around this and just suppose there were other features of CF that prompted its use in guitars. And weight was not one of them.
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  #30  
Old 10-16-2021, 05:57 PM
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David Eastwood David Eastwood is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks View Post
Before I got a CF guitar, all my experiences with CF were things that were primarily purchased because they were lighter - bear canister, canoe, bicycle fork.... And now we have an all CF guitar with a 12" lower bout that weighs as much as a full-size wood guitar. I am trying to wrap my head around this and just suppose there were other features of CF that prompted its use in guitars. And weight was not one of them.
Interesting observation. I donít ever recall reading or hearing anyone say that reducing weight was a goal of using CF for guitars. Itís always been more focused on the environmental stability of the material than anything else. I have no way of verifying this, of course, but Iíd suspect that the bulk of the weight in an Emerald, for example, comes from the conventional components - tuners, truss rod and so on, and the resin used in construction - not the fabric itself.
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