Converting a K&K pure mini to dual-source system.. suggestions?

[guitarman68]

Originally Posted by smossy

Had originally planned to use DPA 4061 w/ the K&K - but would DPA plus Dazzo be a significant improvement?
Ah.. the joys of chasing that elusive tone...

Yes, in my experience the Dazzo would be a significant improvement. The best amplified sound I get is with my Merrill OM28 (Dazzo/DPA4061). Also sounded great in my 1948 D18. I recommend to contact Teddy Randazzo. He will tell you the right bass response Dazzo for your 1947 D28. Could be a #70 or a #60 maybe. I have a #70 in my Merrill OM28, which is a balanced guitar. Lately I installed a #70 in a friend's standard D18 and it sounded awesome.

[smossy]

Hi all,

I took the plunge and had a K&K + DPA4061 installed. I would like to run this system with the Grace Felix. Can anyone tell me specifically what type of cable I need to go from the guitar into the Felix? I'm confused how 1 cable goes into 2 inputs on the Grace Felix.

Is a stereo cable what I need? I'm assuming most people using a dual-source w/ the Felix use a 1/4" input into the preamp rather than XLR? If anyone can point me to the specific cable I need, that would be appreciated..!

thanks all in advance!

[guitarman68]

Take a stereo cable and plug in to channel 2 of the Felix. Activate both the 12V-dip switch and the A/B-dip switch on the left side of the Felix housing.
Your DPA mic will be on channel 1, pickup on channel 2.
If you use the "amp out" on the Felix (mono line to desk or amp or active monitor), both signals will be sent. If you use one or two of the XLR-outs, you have to decide which mode to select by pressing the button right next to the XLR.
I connect the line out to my personal monitor and send one XLR-out (in "mix" mode: PU and mic as blended on the Felix) to the desk. When it comes to EQ I set everything flat and use the HPF on the mic channel up to 200 Hz, HPF on the pickup depending on guitar, stage volume, ...
Hope that helps.

[smossy]

Thanks all for the continued help. I can't get the dual-source to work with the felix, so I'm seeking help here. I've read the Felix manual so I'm not sure where I'm going wrong.

Here's how I've set things up (apologies I could not figure out how to insert direct images here):

I'm using this stereo cable, which I believe is correct kind:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002I9QSW...roduct_details

Here's the internal DPA mic mounted in guitar:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TgU...ew?usp=sharing

Here's my settings on the felix:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10RJ...ew?usp=sharing

And on the side-panel of the felix (i.e. switches, you can see that I have the 12V engaged):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1662...ew?usp=sharing

I can see channel 2 clearly has a signal, and I hear the K&K come through the amp:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PyR...ew?usp=sharing

But channel 1, I see no signal:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oQq...ew?usp=sharing

I've also both options on the line/mic button, and neither gives me a signal for channel 1.

I figure there's three options why things aren't working:

1) I have something mis-configured with the Grace Felix.
2) The mic was installed incorrectly. I don't believe this to be the case..my luthier told me he wired the mic on the ring of the TRS. The K&K is functioning as expected.
3)The DPA mic itself is faulty. I did not test it prior to having my luthier install it but was told by the well-reputed ebay seller it was in total working order and I had no reason to disbelieve that. Is there a way to test the mic on it's own directly through the Felix?

Any help greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.

[guitarman68]

Hi,

it looks like the DPA mic does not get any power from the Felix. So my advice would be: Study the manual on page 12 and 13. You will have to open the chassis of the Felix to set the internal jumpers right which send 12 V to the ring. I've done it that way when receiving my Felix.
After doing so, set the DIP switch on the left side of the Felix to A+B mode for blending the two sources.

[smossy]

Woahhh. Thanks so much . I did read that part in the manual but will read it again.. the manual made it seem like the Felix would provide 12v power to DPA out-of-the box but I guess not! That is good to know you had to actually open up the chassis and configure .

I’m guessing hitting the red 48v switch is a bad idea with the DPA? I’ve heard 48v phantom can fry the DPA since it shouldn’t run on anything over 12v. If that’s the case I’m kinda surprised the Felix manual doesn’t mention it ..

Thanks again man!

[guitarman68]

Glad to help !

Hitting the 48V button will only feed an external condenser mic plugged into the XLR-input, so it will not affect the internal mic in your guitar. No danger here.
There is a button right beside that XLR-input where you select mic/line. When using an internal mic you want to choose "line" because the internal mic is connected to your stereo line cable.

[smossy]

The saga continues. I talked on the phone today with Grace Audio, and changed my jumper settings according to the 12 V power requirements..

Photo of my circuitboard configuration here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yxj...ew?usp=sharing


Still no luck. I get no signal from channel 1(the mic).

I'm hoping the mic was installed correctly - I was told it was put on the ring of TRS. But even when I tap the mic, no sound, so it seems like it's not getting power.

[smossy]

UPDATE:

So, I talked with the luthier who installed the DPA. He said:

So the mic had two wires one the middle one is usually hot and the braided one is usually ground. How I wired it was I wired the hot to the ring and sleeve and the ground to the ground connection on the jack. Now I’m wondering was I supposed to wire the hot to ring and ground to the sleeve

Can anyone with experience installing the DPA in a dual-source pickup system comment here? (maybe Doug Young?) Luthier and I wondering if he installed it correctly based on the info he gives above.

Thanks much everyone.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by smossy

UPDATE:

So, I talked with the luthier who installed the DPA. He said:

So the mic had two wires one the middle one is usually hot and the braided one is usually ground. How I wired it was I wired the hot to the ring and sleeve and the ground to the ground connection on the jack. Now I’m wondering was I supposed to wire the hot to ring and ground to the sleeve

Can anyone with experience installing the DPA in a dual-source pickup system comment here? (maybe Doug Young?) Luthier and I wondering if he installed it correctly based on the info he gives above.

Thanks much everyone.

Sounds like it is wired wrong. I'm confused about the "hot to the ring and sleeve" part. That's definitely not going to work, even with a 2-wire mic, you're basically shorting the ring to the sleeve.


If the mic has 3 wires, it needs the hot wire to the ring and then the ground wire as well as the shield wired to ground (sleeve). This is odd, since my DPA 4061s have all been 2 wire - they were previously connected to a microdot connector which has only 1 hot wire and ground, but someone else recently said their 4061 had 3 wires, so maybe they've changed, or my memory is totally wrong (I stopped using DPAs ages ago). So I don't know which color wire is which, but it will only work with the right wire getting the voltage, if it's like the other 3 wire mics I've worked with.

[smossy]

Doug-

Thanks so much! He said:

the mic had two wires one the middle one is usually hot and the braided one is usually ground

So it sounds like we have a hot wire and ground wire. But we are confused where these two wires should be wired to, specifically? If I'm understanding you correctly - it should be wired hot wire to ring and ground wire to sleeve?

I found an old post by JackOrion who I believe is a forum member here and he said:

For mine I had a tech remove the connector which was on there and wire the hot to the ring and the ground to the sleeve of the stereo jack.

So sounds like hot to ring and ground to sleeve is what I'm after...

thanks!

[smossy]

And given how this is currently wired, it shouldn't be a big deal to fix right? i.e. the current way he wired it shouldn't have shorted the mic or anything right?

[Doug Young]

Should be no big deal, and it shouldn't have hurt the mic.

Here's what one of my DPA 4061's looks like. It's just a hot wire with the braided shield. Wire the hot to the ring, the shield to ground (sleeve):

IMG_7365 (1).jpg

[smossy]

Thanks! It sounds like the hot to the ring and sleeve is currently probably the cause of the failure. Hot to ring, shield to ground - got it.

Will report back if we have success..

[smossy]

I am still kinda suprised that I'm getting absolutely no signal though w/ the ground wired to the sleeve. It must be that the hot wire is wired both to the ring AND sleeve that is totally messing things up. Anyways thanks again.