Advice on acoustic modeling DI- Aura, Tonedexter, Voiceprint, Tonedexter, NU-X Optima

[jonfields45]

ToneDexters are in short supply at the moment... Otherwise it would be my recommendation.

[Chriscom]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

I find the video interesting, but very incomplete.

Aaron never claims to be the defintive end-all of everything, and is refreshingly clear about what he is doing and how he is doing it. As for other combinations like SBTs and the like, of course we would all like other people to produce even more free content for us!

Regarding the use of different mics, a variety of mics, including less expensive ones, have produced very good results according to self-reports here. I used a Rode NT1-A which is not nothing at $229 but ain't $1000 either.

Anyway, a mic excerpt from the Tonedexter FAQ: A small diaphragm condenser mic is recommended. Large diaphragm mics can also work well, but may be more finicky about placement. Dynamic mics, such as common vocal mics, can yield usable results, though generally will not have as much high frequency information.

[aschroeder]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

If you are used to the Mama Bear than the next best choice IMO would be the Aura Spectrum DI. It's still the only IR type pedal that I can truly say is "plug and play." All the others, NUX, TD, Voiceprint etc., will take time & experimentation. I just have not been able to make them work live and if I do use them, I find I have to turn the blend way down.

On paper, IR's are fantastic, but I think we see a lot of members on here giving up on them. Molly Tuttle was mentioned in the post above. It looks like she has even gone back to a K&K dual source system with the pure mini and their soundhole pickup.

I'm a bit of a tech guy so I will likely enjoy the process of experimenting with IR's. The Mama Bear was a very easy to use "plug and play" option for me. It was effective in warming up the sound of my guitar and smoothing out the quack. But I always kept the the blend fairly low because it got very hollow sounding fast.

Now that there are more IR options available I'm hoping to find one perfectly matched that was recorded from a similar guitar to mine (or directly from my guitar). I always felt a bit limited by the options on the Mama Bear. Most of the IR options were worthless to me and I only used a couple of them. When I bought it over 15 years ago it was great, but definitely lacked the flexibility of some of these new pedals.

[aschroeder]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Chriscom & others…
I find the video interesting, but very incomplete.

My biggest concern with videos like Aaron's is people listening to a single experimental take like this without realizing the narrowness of it, and then making a purchase believing it will transform their live sound with little or no work (and these units are not inexpensive).

I agree with your comment. I definitely didn't make my decision solely on this video. But it did help to hear the differences in the units with no EQ adjustments. I noticed other things in some of the samples that you wouldn't be able to EQ (especially in the Baggs pedal). The Baggs Voiceprint clips I've listened to sound very "digital" to me with weird artifacts in the sound.

I was deciding between the Tonedexter and the Optima Air. My reason for going with the Optima Air is the ability to load 3rd party IR's through the computer app. So if I'm not successful recording my own I could load other IR's not already on the unit.

[Brent Nelson]

Agree in that I don't feel most (any?) folks are making a purchase based solely on what they see and hear in a single video. It's just one piece of information. I think Aaron is super transparent about that. I for one am grateful for the information he shares and have learned a bunch just listening in.

I landed on the Optima Air after test driving a few. One thing I think that is being overlooked is that it is a very good sounding preamp by itself. Like others, I have ventured away from IRs, but I continue to use the NuX simply for its good preamp and excellent tone shaping. I have a Fire-eye Red-eye that sits in my case, as I feel the Optima Air sounds better and has more tone shaping tools. But they are both good. We split a lot of hairs here. But....from my view...so much of the stuff that is out there sounds really good.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Chriscom

…A small diaphragm condenser mic is recommended. Large diaphragm mics can also work well, but may be more finicky about placement. Dynamic mics, such as common vocal mics, can yield usable results, though generally will not have as much high frequency information.

Hi Chriscom…
I think Aaron disclosed what he did, but don't think much discussion of different options were considered. I'm more concerned people would watch a single video and think the samples and opinions are universally agreed upon (settled).

I love the fact we have tons of choices for IR units. It's a game changer for high end playing with top quality acoustics live…especially for acoustic soloists, or small ensembles.

James May has been a great help. I have not produced any samples with similar quality with the small condenser mic over 1" capsule condensers. On the other hand, I've only tried a handful of small diaphragm mics (including my Peluso CEMC6 mics), and two medium diaphragm mics.

I've used small diaphragm (10-12mm capsule), medium capsule (20mm capsule) and large diaphragm (26-28mm capsule).

And I think the Rode NT-1 would be a great choice.

I have not found any of my condenser mics to be finicky. The room/space I recorded in seemed more important than the mics I used.

I placed them 14-18" off the neck/body joint aimed at the joint parallel to the body, or from about the 9th fret about 14" off the neck aimed toward the sound-hole, or about 11" in off the lower bout aimed slightly behind the bridge.

Glad we are having the discussion…

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by aschroeder

I agree with your comment. I definitely didn't make my decision solely on this video. But it did help to hear the differences in the units with no EQ adjustments. I noticed other things in some of the samples that you wouldn't be able to EQ (especially in the Baggs pedal). The Baggs Voiceprint clips I've listened to sound very "digital" to me with weird artifacts in the sound.

I was deciding between the Tonedexter and the Optima Air. My reason for going with the Optima Air is the ability to load 3rd party IR's through the computer app. So if I'm not successful recording my own I could load other IR's not already on the unit.

Hi ASchroeder…
Thanks for the thoughtful and thought-provoking dialogue…

I suspect serious players will weigh and consider options and not base their decisions on a single sample, experiment or review. The hard part in choosing is the lack of real-world examples of these units to try-out, hear or experiment with before purchasing.

This is cutting edge new tech, and more units are showing up all the time.

I already had been using a great working system in all my guitars for 15 years (K&K dual source with Raven PMB, DTAR Solstice, & Headway two channel external preamps).

My addition of the ToneDexter to my gear was based on a dream at age 71 to see if I could get performance level, room filling acoustic guitar volume with studio quality sound in live situations. And I've accomplished that, and in fact it has exceeded my hopes.

The ToneDexter V2 software update finally put it over the top. When the unit was new, I had to fiddle around to get the sound I wanted, and was using a sound hole plug to limit feedback.

The addition of the new Notch controller (variable adjustment which allows one to knock down the resonant peak frequencies), and full mic recording on all post-Version 2 WaveMaps (which are more natural than before) made huge improvements for me. And I was already happy.

I have not been using the Feedback Buster any more (it's still in the pick drawer if I need it).

My last three outings were in challenging settings:

• Funeral in a large, high raftered church with stone-block-walls and full wooden ceiling…with an average room volume of about 85db & I stood right under the mains (flown) and right beside the sub. And I'm sure I pushed the volumes to over 90db at times.
• Leading worship in our home church with about a 95db room level of which about 80db leaks back onto the stage.
• A Christmas vocal/guitar solo special in a church with a 45X100 foot sanctuary (untreated sheet-rock walls) with 22 foot peaks, with 15" two way cabinets flown from corners at celing level in front of the stage, and subs on the floor nearly underneath them (I sat 10 feet in front of the sub and right in the flight path of the two way on my side of the room) at about 90db.

Not even a hint of feedback, and such a good sound in all three situations. It sounded like my Olson with me singing along.

I drive the ToneDexter with my K&K Pure mini, but have left all the K&K mics in my 5 acoustics which have the dual source systems as a backup should something fail me in the ToneDexter realm.

Hope this adds to the discussion…

[doublescale1]

I first got an Aura system on a Martin Performing artist a few eras back - It sounds very natural and "mic'd" and it's easy to dial in - I got a used 000-18 and put an Aura Elipse pickup in it, same organic mic'd tone to the PA. The ability to mix Fishmans' modeled guitar samples with the guitar pickup makes for a very good live amplified tone - I started out on this modeling/Live mixed guitar sound way back with a Dear Mama Bear pre-amp - that still sounds great too but this Aura pickup system is much easier to use live - no extra box to carry around. The Tonedexter thing is something you make your own guitar modeled sounds with your guitar - I find it so much easier to have Fishman create them and just download them into the pickup, in the case of the Eclipse, in the Performing Artist guitar, Martin loads them in at the factory. Truly plug and play with minimal fussing around - I don't use electric guitar amp modelers for the same reason - rather play than program.

[Chriscom]

Originally Posted by doublescale1

I started out on this modeling/Live mixed guitar sound way back with a Dear Mama Bear pre-amp - that still sounds great too but this Aura pickup system is much easier to use live - no extra box to carry around. The Tonedexter thing is something you make your own guitar modeled sounds with your guitar - I find it so much easier to have Fishman create them and just download them into the pickup, in the case of the Eclipse, in the Performing Artist guitar, Martin loads them in at the factory. Truly plug and play with minimal fussing around.

I've eyed the Eclipse off and on as a replacement in one of my Sonitone-equipped Martins, since I love the Aura VT Enhance in my expensive Martin. But I don't think the Sapele road series I have is exactly matched in the library, and I've had less success hooking it up to the Aura DI.

The Eclipse also looks a bit heavy and big, relatively speaking, so I wonder if it would affect the unplugged sound I love so much. But I really don't know if the VT Enhance on my other one is any less intrusive.

Tonedexter for now on the Sonitone!