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Old 03-21-2018, 09:07 AM
llew llew is offline
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Default Martin D-41/42

I'm just curious...these two Martin dreads are upper tier for sure but why the $1500 difference in the MSRP when the new "Re-Imagined" models are essentially identical from a build perspective? The new D-45 even more so with the same bracing pattern and tone woods?
Is it just "perceived" value as model numbers increase? I realize aesthetically there are differences but is there more? What am I missing?
Thanks!
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Old 03-21-2018, 09:19 AM
Quake17 Quake17 is offline
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Jim,

Excellent question! Back in 2001, I opted for the D-42 because I preferred the forward shifted bracing and the snowflake inlays over the hexagons, but I bought it from the original owner at a year old, which allowed me to go for the '42. If I could not find a good used '42 today and had to buy new, I'd opt for the '41.
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Old 03-21-2018, 09:27 AM
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There are considerable differences in the inlays. Inlays are laborious...as labor costs increase, guitar costs increase. Whether or not those costs are worth it is an individual choice, but to many they are.
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Old 03-21-2018, 09:35 AM
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The bracing is the same, they use the same wood grades, and the same neck shape. Functionally, there's no real difference now. In the past the D-42 had ivoroid binding, but now both guitars use Antique white binding. IMO that is a serious downgrade on the D-42. No functional difference, but I really like ivoroid. The D-42 has a full gloss neck finish, which some people prefer. So the differences are now only the snowflake vs. small hexagon fretboard inlay and the pearl around the fretboard extension on the D-42. About $900 street price difference for those three features.
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Old 03-21-2018, 09:36 AM
llew llew is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drplayer View Post
There are considerable differences in the inlays. Inlays are laborious...as labor costs increase, guitar costs increase. Whether or not those costs are worth it is an individual choice, but to many they are.
I'm certainly not debating what additional costs are worth it. That's a purely personal matter as you say. But I am trying to understand the additional cost as the model numbers increase based on the likeness of their builds. Inlay work is labor intensive and if that's the only difference so be it. Just looking for an explanation.
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Old 03-21-2018, 09:41 AM
llew llew is offline
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Originally Posted by Todd Yates View Post
The bracing is the same, they use the same wood grades, and the same neck shape. Functionally, there's no real difference now. In the past the D-42 had ivoroid binding, but now both guitars use Antique white binding. IMO that is a serious downgrade on the D-42. No functional difference, but I really like ivoroid. The D-42 has a full gloss neck finish, which some people prefer. So the differences are now only the snowflake vs. small hexagon fretboard inlay and the pearl around the fretboard extension on the D-42. About $900 street price difference for those three features.
Thanks Todd! It would be interesting to hear the 41/42/45 played directly in front of you blindfolded. I wonder which one I'd choose from a standpoint of tone only?
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Old 03-21-2018, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llew View Post
I'm certainly not debating what additional costs are worth it. That's a purely personal matter as you say. But I am trying to understand the additional cost as the model numbers increase based on the likeness of their builds. Inlay work is labor intensive and if that's the only difference so be it. Just looking for an explanation.
Yep, it's the inlays--and as Todd mentioned, a small additional cost for a gloss finish on the necks of the D-42 & D-45.
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Old 03-21-2018, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by drplayer View Post
There are considerable differences in the inlays. Inlays are laborious...as labor costs increase, guitar costs increase. Whether or not those costs are worth it is an individual choice, but to many they are.
The fingerboard inlays on either the D41 or D42 must cost about $5 total. Maybe $10.

The style-42 fingerboard extension must cost max $20.

I might be exaggerating -- but barely.

The 42 series has always cost significantly more than the 40 series -- for the same reasons why the 45 series is significantly more expensive than the 42. It has very little to do with actual building cost and everything to do with marketing and positioning.
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Old 03-21-2018, 11:05 AM
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What Todd said above.

And no, to me, an extra ~ 1k would not be worth it for the modest differences between the 41 and 42 given the bracing patterns are identical now (which they weren’t on the pre-2018s). The 45 is an entirely different matter altogether, as it is their flagship.
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Old 03-21-2018, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeCharter View Post
The fingerboard inlays on either the D41 or D42 must cost about $5 total. Maybe $10.

The style-42 fingerboard extension must cost max $20.

I might be exaggerating -- but barely.
Well, that might be true if you're only using the material cost and not considering the labor costs--which is never how cost is, or should, be calculated. This is not unique to Martin, it's common to all luthiers and all businesses for that matter. Should the time spent performing a task (in this case, routing the channels and inlaying the pearl) be free?

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Originally Posted by JoeCharter View Post
The 42 series has always cost significantly more than the 40 series -- for the same reasons why the 45 series is significantly more expensive than the 42. It has very little to do with actual building cost and everything to do with marketing and positioning.
Correct...because there is more extensive inlay work on the D-42 vs. the D-41, and more extensive inlay work still on the D-45 vs. the D-42. Some things might be "marketing and positioning", but there is no marketing campaign touting the D-45 as a "better" guitar than a D-42...it's simply just more ornate. Time is money, and you can maybe take exception to the amount of mark-up there is on the inlays, but that's a different discussion...
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Last edited by drplayer; 03-21-2018 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 03-21-2018, 12:50 PM
Jasper64 Jasper64 is offline
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David Wilcox once told the story of how Jim Olson built him a guitar at a very good price since his favorite Olson was stolen. So David put his money into finding the best wood he could.... but literally had no bling or dressings on the guitar. David said it was a very plain guitar but boy what a killer sound. "It was like a billionaire in jeans". The bling does require the additional labor but for me has never added up to the additional cost. I am all about the wood and sound! The bling always adds a lotta cha-ching! Some don't mind paying that cost.... to each his own.
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Old 03-21-2018, 04:05 PM
JoeCharter JoeCharter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drplayer View Post
Well, that might be true if you're only using the material cost and not considering the labor costs--which is never how cost is, or should, be calculated. This is not unique to Martin, it's common to all luthiers and all businesses for that matter. Should the time spent performing a task (in this case, routing the channels and inlaying the pearl) be free?
Obviously nothing's free -- but routing the channels with today's equipment and inlaying pearl wit Abalam costs very little. I saw some numbers on this topic recently and the expense is very modest -- even if Martin were to use traditional abalone blocks. It doesn't take a whole week for a Martin employee to inlay a standard model.

The biggest difference between a D41 and a D42 is neither manpower nor material -- it's profit.


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Correct...because there is more extensive inlay work on the D-42 vs. the D-41, and more extensive inlay work still on the D-45 vs. the D-42. Some things might be "marketing and positioning", but there is no marketing campaign touting the D-45 as a "better" guitar than a D-42...it's simply just more ornate. Time is money, and you can maybe take exception to the amount of mark-up there is on the inlays, but that's a different discussion...
There is no advertising or marketing campaign -- but the pricing is driven by the positioning of the guitar in Martin's range. There is a little bit more work on a D42 but it sells for much more because Martin positioned it as such.

Your last comment about the amount of mark-up there is on inlays is actually in line with what I've been saying.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:29 PM
FeliceTaylor FeliceTaylor is offline
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can you tell me what the difference is between ivoroid and antique white binding ?
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:15 PM
zoopeda zoopeda is offline
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Quote:
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can you tell me what the difference is between ivoroid and antique white binding ?
They’re both chintzy-looking plastic...
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:04 PM
Steadfastly Steadfastly is offline
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Why the cost difference of $1500.00? You have heard of marketing, I'm sure.
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