Hide Glue vs normal Titebond

[dadfad]

I'm asking if anyone knows which would be the best glue to use for repairing a broken head-stock, Titebond Liquid Hide Glue (not warming-pot hide glue) or Titebond Original Wood Glue. The break is clean and broken in such a way as to give a good sized gluing surface.

In an old Stew-Mac video Dan Erlewine uses Titebond Liquid Hide Glue, but I'm concerned normal environmental heat and humidity could effect it and that Titebond Wood Glue might give a stronger repair.

(I remember waaay back in high-school shop-class our teacher saying a wood glue joint, back in the old Elmer's Wood Glue days, was stronger than the wood itself. I hope he was right!)

So I'd appreciate any advise from someone familiar with both. (I do have quite a bit of experience doing more simple guitar repairs and restoration like repairing top-cracks, neck-resets, etc but not this one.)

This guitar, an old 1950's Gibson LO-1, is important to me as it was my mom's guitar and the instrument that started me playing fifty years ago. Prior to this break it was in extremely fine condition. I broke my own rule by not transporting a nice guitar only in a padded hard-shell case and Instant-Karma got me!

[redir]

If the head stock is completely broken off then it's not really a DIY repair imho. If it's still hanging on then most people can do an adequate DIY job.

Titebon Original is your friend here. The Liquid Hide Glue is not recommended. Most experienced luthiers will tell you to never use it as they have had trouble with it. It mostly comes down to the age of the glue in the bottle. It has to be very fresh else it loses it's strength fast. If you got a bottle from SM then they may have quality controls on that but I would call and ask if you are hell bent on using it.

Otherwise just use TB original. With TB if the crack is really thin and tight you can thin TB up to 10% with water without losing any measurable strength. THe thinner glue will wick into the tight cracks better. Some use compressed air to push it in. Another thing to consider with TB is clamping pressure. You do NOT need to clamp the hell out of it. Just slowly add pressure till the squeeze out stops coming out as you clean it up and then give it one more snug.

Leave clamped for 12 hours.

[Fathand]

Originally Posted by dadfad

I'm asking if anyone knows which would be the best glue to use for repairing a broken head-stock, Titebond Liquid Hide Glue (not warming-pot hide glue) or Titebond Original Wood Glue. The break is clean and broken in such a way as to give a good sized gluing surface.
me!

Use the Titebond Original., I have done a few broken necks with it that came out good, including a banjo neck that was in 5 pieces and is holding together fine after 5 years.

[dadfad]

Thanks for your quick reply. I also kind of thought Titebond Original Wood Glue would be best. As far as being a DIY'er, I've repaired my own guitars and those of friends for years. While I wouldn't call myself an experienced luthier, I've also removed, repaired and replaced tops and bracing, re-fretted necks, removed fret-boards and replaced truss-rods so I kind of have a decent handle on doing a lot of repairs a lot of guitarists can't or won't do themselves.

This broke in such a way as to give a lot of gluing surface, sort of a W-shaped break, very clean and with no splintering (which I attribute to the age and quality of the wood). I was actually able to hold the broken piece up to the neck and get a perfect fit. I've used hide-glue in a warming-pot before but I think I need a little more time than that would allow.

I have a variety of tools and clamps, but none of my clamps seem to be right for this job. I'm considering leaving the two tuners that would be closest to the nut on each side of the head-stock on and then using two of my strong clamping rubber-bands going from them to two opposing Keyser capos near the nut at the first fret. I don't think I need a lot of actual clamping pressure, just enough to keep the piece tightly in place until it sets and with a bit of pressure at the same time.

I actually trust myself to do a better job than say Elderly Instruments. The few times I've used them I never thought they did that great a job and the last time I used them, for a bridge-plate re-glue on my 1934 Gibson "The Jumbo" they actually broke not only the original bridge-plate but somehow managed to break the original bridge itself that had an original 1/8" wide ivory saddle and replaced it with newer-looking replacement Gibson-type bridge with a thinner plastic saddle.

Again, thanks for your quick reply and I'd appreciate any other tips you might have you think could be helpful.

[dadfad]

Thanks for your quick reply. That's kind of what I thought, and redir advised the same thing you did. So that's what I'm going to try. I see Titebond now also has what they call Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue. But I think I'll stick with the original like you and redr have said. Any other tips you might have you think might be helpful would be appreciated too.

[redir]

Yeah stick with the Original. The only other tip I would have depends on if the headstock is snapped all the way off or if it is still hanging on. It makes a big difference.

If the head stock is completely removed then when you start to apply clamping pressure IT WILL SLIP out of place and the joint will be terrible, if you are even able to clamp it up. You would need to make some sort of jig such that there is a back stop that holds everything together.

In all fairness it's not uncommon to break a bridge plate when trying to remove one, especially an old brittle one. It's easy to damage the top too. It's a very difficult repair.

[phavriluk]

OP: There's lots more important topics in a first project without going down a glue-filled rabbit hole. Titebond works fine. If 'creeping' was a problem, Martin wouldn't use it. Next question.

[dadfad]

I submitted questions to other members regarding the repair of a broken-off peg-head (right next to the nut) on a Gibson acoustic back in April. First I want to thank everyone for their input and advice.

I made the repair using Tite-Bond original. I cleaned the splinters in the break out and the two sides of the ugly break (WWW-shaped) fit together nicely. I first brushed in a light coating of watered-down Tite-Bond to get some in every little nook and cranny and then applied full strength Tite-Bond, pushed them together and very lightly clamped it. (By "very lightly clamped it" what I did was put two opposing Keyer capos on each side of the break and used a couple of rubber bands between them to keep them pushed together.

I let is set for one week. I cleaned off the Tite-Bond squeeze-out using alcohol and elbow-grease. The break is now just a fairly thin slightly visible line. I could (and eventually probably will) do a refinishing using the correct black nitrocellulose lacquer and one of those disposable little air canisters you can put what ever you want in to spray. (No need to use an actual compressor and an airbrush to clean up.)

I've been playing that guitar regularly since early May (actually trying to stress it a little). So far no slippage or sign of separation, loosening, etc. It plays and sounds as good as it did before my stupid mistake of not keeping it in a hard-shell case. (To quote the old Blind Blake tune, "That'll never happen no more.")

Again, thanks to everyone for their input.

-Dadfad

[JLT]

If you want a glue that has the open time of Titebond and the reversibility of hide glue, I think your best bet is fish glue, available from Blues Creek Guitar or Stew-Mac. It adheres well to itself, unlike Titebond, so you don't have to be as anal about removing all traces of the original glue before re-gluing. It has a long enough open time to allow you to take your time with the assembly. And it seems to have most of the other properties of hide glue. I use it for most of the parts that may eventually require disassembly. But for braces and bridges, I still go old school and use hot hide glue, because those are the places where adhesion is the most critical.

[redir]

Originally Posted by dadfad

I submitted questions to other members regarding the repair of a broken-off peg-head (right next to the nut) on a Gibson acoustic back in April. First I want to thank everyone for their input and advice.

I made the repair using Tite-Bond original. I cleaned the splinters in the break out and the two sides of the ugly break (WWW-shaped) fit together nicely. I first brushed in a light coating of watered-down Tite-Bond to get some in every little nook and cranny and then applied full strength Tite-Bond, pushed them together and very lightly clamped it. (By "very lightly clamped it" what I did was put two opposing Keyer capos on each side of the break and used a couple of rubber bands between them to keep them pushed together.

I let is set for one week. I cleaned off the Tite-Bond squeeze-out using alcohol and elbow-grease. The break is now just a fairly thin slightly visible line. I could (and eventually probably will) do a refinishing using the correct black nitrocellulose lacquer and one of those disposable little air canisters you can put what ever you want in to spray. (No need to use an actual compressor and an airbrush to clean up.)

I've been playing that guitar regularly since early May (actually trying to stress it a little). So far no slippage or sign of separation, loosening, etc. It plays and sounds as good as it did before my stupid mistake of not keeping it in a hard-shell case. (To quote the old Blind Blake tune, "That'll never happen no more.")

Again, thanks to everyone for their input.

-Dadfad

If all you see is a very thin line then it sounds like you did a good job. I have a can of Black Nitro, and other colors, from Stewmac in my shop at all times. They are great for touch ups like that. Black is very forgiving so you can make it totally disappear with ease. If the thin crack has some depth to it, any amount, then fill it first with somthign like GLu-Boost.

[phavriluk]

I keep hearing folks worrying about 'slippage' where Titebond has been used. Anybody seen one of those Sainted Martins falling apart lately? Enough. I think it's just the jungle telegraph distorting and amplifying ignorance passed along as 'wisdom'.

[redir]

Originally Posted by phavriluk

I keep hearing folks worrying about 'slippage' where Titebond has been used. Anybody seen one of those Sainted Martins falling apart lately? Enough. I think it's just the jungle telegraph distorting and amplifying ignorance passed along as 'wisdom'.

Do you mean cold creep? I have seen it but not at all often enough to worry about it and my guess is that it happens when the guitar is mistreated. We as luthiers should expect our guitars to be mistreated and it is best to 'built in' a bit of error handling so to speak but within reason too. And using HHG on every joint is not within reason imho, especially where there are not much stresses. I do use HHG for bridges now though because of that reason, and reversability.

[DickHutchings]

Have you personally seen a bridge creep forward?

[redir]

Originally Posted by DickHutchings

Have you personally seen a bridge creep forward?

Yes I have. It tends to plow the finish up in front of it.

[DickHutchings]

Thank you. I won't be using Titebond to glue my bridges.