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  #16  
Old 04-17-2023, 03:11 PM
Joseph Hanna Joseph Hanna is offline
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Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
And there's also the one dreary guy who asks if your recording space sounds as good as it could. I realize that room treatment is about as fun as home improvements inside the walls or under the floor, but the facts are the facts.
You're not the only dreary guy around here I would do absolutely nothing until the room was as best as the budget would allow.
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  #17  
Old 04-17-2023, 03:22 PM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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You're not the only dreary guy around here I would do absolutely nothing until the room was as best as the budget would allow.
Hey, I never said that one dreary guy was me. I was talking about you all along. :-)
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  #18  
Old 04-17-2023, 03:25 PM
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Itís just not possible in my case. My music gear shares the room with a lot of stop-motion animation equipment and thereís not a lot of room to move, never mind add in any acoustic treatment. The positive is that there arenít many flat surfaces but itís pretty random. However, Iíve been getting decent results with what Iíve got, but thatís just been for demos so far. Iím in my 60s now but Iíve been lucky enough over the years to record in a number of great studios both here in Scotland and down in London and I know the value of a great recording space. But my aim here is to see if I can do the basic recording at home and then take the tracks in to be finished in a proper studio. I guess it will become clear really quickly if Iím kidding myself once I hear my recordings back through the studio monitors, in a properly treated control room, sat next to a perplexed and glowering studio engineer. Haha! Canít wait!
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  #19  
Old 04-17-2023, 04:44 PM
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Hey, I never said that one dreary guy was me. I was talking about you all along. :-)
................
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  #20  
Old 04-17-2023, 07:03 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Yep, it's been super helpful, Jim...
I'm glad you found it helpful.
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  #21  
Old 04-26-2023, 08:51 AM
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I have an Apogee Duet which I highly recommend. Absolutely silent dual inputs extremely high quality. They've been around for a while and mine is over eight years old still works great on my MacBook Pro 2021. I run a couple Neumanns into it and am very pleased with the results I'm getting.
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  #22  
Old 04-26-2023, 11:25 AM
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Should we expect a lesser recording quality with the Focusrite 18i20 than with a Neve unit? It’s so abstract to me.

Think of the answer in two extreme conditions: a) an untreated bedroom and b) a professional studio. Would there be a quality difference between the interfaces in either case?
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  #23  
Old 04-26-2023, 12:14 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Originally Posted by b1j View Post
Should we expect a lesser recording quality with the Focusrite 18i20 than with a Neve unit? It’s so abstract to me.

Think of the answer in two extreme conditions: a) an untreated bedroom and b) a professional studio. Would there be a quality difference between the interfaces in either case?
There will be but whether it's noticeable has to involve other variables. Not particular to the Focusrite v. Neve (because unless someone heard them both...), here's just a couple...
1. How good are the listeners ears? We're not all born with the same hearing ability nor do we gain the same hearing ability as we age. Also, not all ears are going to pick up problems right away because not all ears are trained to hear them.
2. If something bad is imparted on a track as a result of some lower quality or damaged component, and that artifact is imparted on every track in a larger mix, you can get a build up making it more noticeable.
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Last edited by jim1960; 04-26-2023 at 01:33 PM.
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  #24  
Old 04-26-2023, 12:24 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b1j View Post
Should we expect a lesser recording quality with the Focusrite 18i20 than with a Neve unit? Itís so abstract to me.

Think of the answer in two extreme conditions: a) an untreated bedroom and b) a professional studio. Would there be a quality difference between the interfaces in either case?
Many folks would, others not so much.

Learning how to use the gear I have has been more important than the gear itself. That being said, quality gear is better than cheesy gear.
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  #25  
Old 04-26-2023, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b1j View Post
Should we expect a lesser recording quality with the Focusrite 18i20 than with a Neve unit? Itís so abstract to me.

Think of the answer in two extreme conditions: a) an untreated bedroom and b) a professional studio. Would there be a quality difference between the interfaces in either case?
In situation a), likely not. Other factors, like the poor untreated room, will swamp any difference in preamps or conversion (which, tbh, these days are not so large to begin with). In situation b), maybe. If everything else is pristine, you might hear the difference with a fantastic signal chain and good monitors (and, as jim1960 says, the ears and experience to actually recognize it).

In the end, it *is* pretty abstract, and the differences will likely be far outweighed by other, larger and more up-front factors. Neither of those interfaces is "cheesy gear".
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  #26  
Old 04-27-2023, 08:40 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Default Scarlett's ARE Cheesy sounding

Hey Chipotle,

One way to avoid producing inconsistent, mid-hyped, compressed-sounding, solo acoustic guitar recordings is to move up from entry-level gear - especially the entire Scarlett series of interfaces. Their onboard mic preamps are crap.

Those are as CHEESY as sdelsolray infers. Ha!

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  #27  
Old 04-28-2023, 09:19 AM
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Should we expect a lesser recording quality with the Focusrite 18i20 than with a Neve unit? It’s so abstract to me.
Yes..
And it's not abstract, subtle perhaps, but tangible and not abstract.
The notion that (once it is zeros and ones it does not matter) is basically correct but is specious because it ignores what happens before and after it becomes zeros and ones but is still being handled by the interface.
(Better interface Analog section )
A better quality analog input section and mic pre's (assuming you are using the interface mic pre's) are going to produce a cleaner analog signal with a better signal to noise ratio , in turn a cleaner signal is going to have more presence, and that signal will have that when presented to the digital converter. And a better analog output section is going to produce cleaner more present sound for auditioning

(Beter digital section)
Very simplistically ::
Better quality conversion in and out is going to be cleaner because it will have less conversion clock jitter (which is a form of distortion) subtle but is real. As to how noticeable it may be,, has an entire host of other variables involved ..

Quote:
Think of the answer in two extreme conditions an untreated bedroom and b) a professional studio. Would there be a quality difference between the interfaces in either case?
The question is extreme and a bit ambiguous, lets see if we can suss it out more.

In either case studio or bedroom YES there "will there be a quality difference between the interfaces" the quality difference is inherent in the interfaces regardless of location

Will there be a difference in the quality of the recording between the two interfaces in both cases ? Yes again a significantly better interface is likely to produce a better quality recording in either the studio or the bedroom.

Will you be able to notice it in both cases ? Yes possibly and maybe not. First the phrase "untreated bedroom" is to general
It depends on how bad the acoustics are in the specific "bedroom"
If they are bad and as Chipotle mentioned are "swamping the recording with standing wave build ups and or comb filtering and null spots then that may cancel out most of the advantage of the Neve over the Focusrite
In a good studio with good acoustics you will likely notice a difference perhaps subtle but there...
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  #28  
Old 04-28-2023, 09:45 AM
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Good discussion, in my opinion.

I chose to ask about two recording space extremes to try to bracket the range of possibilities. I agree that ďuntreated bedroomĒ is a too-broad example, ranging from bare Sheetrock in a square room to a benignly cluttered space with lots of random refractive surfaces. So letís say itís a roomful of stuff with no dedicated sound absorption.

At the other extreme would be Abbey Road.

Where Iím coming from here is that Iím about to build eight 2x4x4Ē panels that will have a day job as tracking gobos (forming a cave around me and my guitar or voice), and will also go up on the walls to do double duty for mixing and (maybe) mastering. Folks in the know here have asserted that this panel plan will certainly improve the space, and after much hemming and hawing and listening to comparisons Iíve accepted that there has to be some truth to it.

My current question is, how far along the spectrum of room quality will that take me? (Hint: still miles from Abbey Road.) But once I have the panels, will I run into the limitations of my mics and interface/preamps?

Thatís where the marketing hype does me no good. World Class.
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  #29  
Old 04-28-2023, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by b1j View Post
Good discussion, in my opinion.

I chose to ask about two recording space extremes to try to bracket the range of possibilities. I agree that “untreated bedroom” is a too-broad example, ranging from bare Sheetrock in a square room to a benignly cluttered space with lots of random refractive surfaces. So let’s say it’s a roomful of stuff with no dedicated sound absorption.

At the other extreme would be Abbey Road.

Where I’m coming from here is that I’m about to build eight 2x4x4” panels that will have a day job as tracking gobos (forming a cave around me and my guitar or voice), and will also go up on the walls to do double duty for mixing and (maybe) mastering. Folks in the know here have asserted that this panel plan will certainly improve the space, and after much hemming and hawing and listening to comparisons I’ve accepted that there has to be some truth to it.

My current question is, how far along the spectrum of room quality will that take me? (Hint: still miles from Abbey Road.) But once I have the panels, will I run into the limitations of my mics and interface/preamps?

That’s where the marketing hype does me no good. World Class.
If your room is small reflective and is actually causing room reflection issues in your recording you will likely notice a good deal of difference .


Be aware some psychoacoustics may come into play (depending on what your room reflections are actually doing) at first it may sound like a real improvement--- OR it may at first sound a bit dull (if say for example you room has unnatural build up in the mid's or upper mid's ) that you have gotten used to . When that goes away at first is can sound less lively (But it is an illusion)
But as you acclimate you will begin to hear what is likely a more natural balance and hopefully more clarity and depth .

One good exercise before and after exercise is to play a specific tune in your untreated room then take you guitar outside where there is nothing close to reflect off of and play the same tune which should reflect your guitars natural balance Then go back in your treated and do the same it should sound more like it does outside
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  #30  
Old 05-26-2023, 03:15 AM
mondoslug mondoslug is offline
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Itís just not possible in my case. My music gear shares the room with a lot of stop-motion animation equipment and thereís not a lot of room to move, never mind add in any acoustic treatment. The positive is that there arenít many flat surfaces but itís pretty random. However, Iíve been getting decent results with what Iíve got, but thatís just been for demos so far. Iím in my 60s now but Iíve been lucky enough over the years to record in a number of great studios both here in Scotland and down in London and I know the value of a great recording space. But my aim here is to see if I can do the basic recording at home and then take the tracks in to be finished in a proper studio. I guess it will become clear really quickly if Iím kidding myself once I hear my recordings back through the studio monitors, in a properly treated control room, sat next to a perplexed and glowering studio engineer. Haha! Canít wait!
Hello there, I'm curious if you've come to any decisions concerning the above? Thanks!
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