What is koa, and what is a parlor guitar?

[Humbuster]

Koa J45

[Deft Tungsman]

Sinistral’s very informative post says it all in words and specs. Here’s my koa Baranik Retreux, a true parlor, similar to a Martin size 1.

IMG_1702221026.128429.jpgIMG_4575.jpg

[sinistral]

I’m a little puzzled by the question asking what koa is, but if one googles”parlor guitar” or “what is a parlor guitar,” the top answers are consistent with the response I gave, but differing responses were offered in this thread.

From Acoustic Guitar:

A parlor guitar is a compact and narrow-waisted instrument, generally smaller than Martin’s single 0 size.

From Parlor Guitars:

Since there was no legitimate standard for parlor guitar building, luthiers varied the size of their creations to a degree. Even when there is no standard size imposed, many consider having a lower bout that is smaller than 13.5″, or smaller than Martin Guitar’s “0” shape, to be the historically correct size for parlor guitars. However modern day production parlor guitars don’t necessarily follow this size limitation and are much more varied, with some guitar manufacturers labeling even bigger “00” size guitars as parlor, including those with a lower bout of 14″. It should be safe to say that “00” size and below are viable parlor style guitars.

This definition nods to the drift in meaning over time.

From wikipedia:

Parlor or parlour guitar usually refers to a type of acoustic guitar smaller than a Size No.0 Concert Guitar by C. F. Martin & Company.

[Earl49]

Originally Posted by sinistral

Ironically, Martin eventually added a 0000 size to its catalogue, but the original creator of that size guitar wasn’t Martin but rather the guitarist David Bromberg, who had various luthiers retop Martin archtops as flat-top guitars. The guitar that Martin used as a prototype to create the M-38 (eventually designating the M size as 0000) was an F-style archtop Martin guitar that Matt Umanov retopped for David Bromberg.

The one minor thing I would add to this thorough post is that the M and 0000 models have the same shallower body depth as 000’s. The J models are a 0000 shape with dreadnought body depth. I really liked the J-40 as having plenty of horsepower (volume) but with better clarity and balance than a dreadnought because of the narrower waist and slightly reduced internal volume. The M’s are really nice too and a bit less bassy. They probably record very well.

[12FanMan]

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As the original poster to this thread, let me say why I presented my 2 humble questions here rather than googling them. Of course, my reasoning may not please everyone.

When I first joined this forum, all I knew about guitars I learned from the two I owned in the past 50 years, one of which was defective. I have always been a recreational player, not an expert of any sort.

I joined this forum after failing to get any reliable information from a local guitar store guy. Having decided to buy a new guitar in a month or so, I had to learn enough make a wise purchase decision. Due to a number of factors, this will likely be my last guitar.

So, via (and thanks to) this forum, I went from knowing nothing about what to look for...to knowing enough to make a good choice, which I did with the FG-820.

Now, as to why I didn't bother with search engines and that sort of thing...I've grown to trust THIS source of information over one or more others that may have a direct or indirect financial interest in my purchasing decision...as would be the case if all I had to go on was a guitar store or online sales rep. I also trust this forum's banter more than I would...say....amazon ratings or reading "best of" articles. As to the former, last time I checked, the guitar I ended up with had the same 304 amazon ratings of the guitar I bought that they had 2 months ago.

Finally, I don't think my questions wasted anyone's time, as (1) no one is compelled to click on a title that doesn't interest them, and (2)..more importantly...there are others who might have asked the same question, but feared being put down for asking. After all...there are a lot of terms thrown around on this and other forums that more experienced users have learned a long time ago, that the average newbie has never heard. Thankfully, this forum exists for both. I'd probably have a lousy guitar (and less disposable income) today if it didn't.

[Wade Hampton]

Don't worry about it. The vast majority of us on here are perfectly happy that you asked your questions.


Wade Hampton Miller

[b1j]

Once again, sinistral nails it. That's a wellspring of information.

Also, leave it to Maury to summarize things succinctly:

https://www.maurysmusic.com/martin_by_body_size

[Don Lampson]

Originally Posted by 12FanMan

------------------------------------------------------------
As the original poster to this thread, let me say why I presented my 2 humble questions here rather than googling them. Of course, my reasoning may not please everyone.

When I first joined this forum, all I knew about guitars I learned from the two I owned in the past 50 years, one of which was defective. I have always been a recreational player, not an expert of any sort.

I joined this forum after failing to get any reliable information from a local guitar store guy. Having decided to buy a new guitar in a month or so, I had to learn enough make a wise purchase decision. Due to a number of factors, this will likely be my last guitar.

So, via (and thanks to) this forum, I went from knowing nothing about what to look for...to knowing enough to make a good choice, which I did with the FG-820.

Now, as to why I didn't bother with search engines and that sort of thing...I've grown to trust THIS source of information over one or more others that may have a direct or indirect financial interest in my purchasing decision...as would be the case if all I had to go on was a guitar store or online sales rep. I also trust this forum's banter more than I would...say....amazon ratings or reading "best of" articles. As to the former, last time I checked, the guitar I ended up with had the same 304 amazon ratings of the guitar I bought that they had 2 months ago.

Finally, I don't think my questions wasted anyone's time, as (1) no one is compelled to click on a title that doesn't interest them, and (2)..more importantly...there are others who might have asked the same question, but feared being put down for asking. After all...there are a lot of terms thrown around on this and other forums that more experienced users have learned a long time ago, that the average newbie has never heard. Thankfully, this forum exists for both. I'd probably have a lousy guitar (and less disposable income) today if it didn't.

There's centuries of experience, knowledge, & herds of five figure instruments to view here... It's a great place for anyone who wants to learn about guitars!

Don

[Dave Hicks]

Koa tree (Acacia koa, Fabaceae or legume family)

[TomB'sox]

Originally Posted by Deft Tungsman

Sinistral’s very informative post says it all in words and specs. Here’s my koa Baranik Retreux, a true parlor, similar to a Martin size 1.

Attachment 101490Attachment 101491

Perfect, ask and ye shall receive. A Parlor in Koa (unless that is Tazmanian Blackwood, pretty much indistinguishable from koa).

Koa is a great tonewood, but it is known for having a large variation from piece to piece so I think it is true to say all koa is not created equal.

[TomB'sox]

May I remind folks, if you don't think a thread is worthy of your time to respond, it is easier for you to move on to something else than to post on why you are not going to post or to criticize the content of the thread.

Thank you.

[endpin]

Regardless of its dimensions, the function of a Parlor/Parlour guitar in modern terms is a guitar that is comfortable to plunk around on the couch without projecting a lot of sound [bass in particular] out to a big audience.

Additionally, nowadays they are being found useful for recording with close up microphones where the lack of overwhelming bass is thought to improve articulation of the midrange notes.

[67goat]

Originally Posted by mercy

Parlor guitar is 13"+/- across the lower bout not 14". Weve had a lot of fun with this thread but there are standards. Today, standard scale is 25.5, a dreadnaught has a particular shape and size as does 000 or 00 despite what a few builders claim, they are in the minority.
I have to guitars, one is 14" across and the other is 15.5 short scale so it is not a 000 guitar. The builder had some kind of fancy name for it which I dont remember but he was informed enough not to call is a 000 guitar. Mini Jumbos seem to have become popular recent years so it is a less distinct appellation but mostly they are 16" across. Jumbos are 17". We must have standards so we can communicate, this is particularly true for this congress of addicts.

Koa can be beautiful if its curly or not if its not. Never buy one unless you can play it. Yes this is true for every guitar but especially Koa which can be disapointing. EIR is more dependable as is mahogany.

When it comes to 000, even Martin plays fast an loose with it. They have had multiple 000s that are technically OMs and also the reverse.

[Silly Moustache]

Thanks to Sinistral from me too as I have that very same catalogue (1924 courtesy of Mugwumps in 1972.

I also have a 1927 Gibson one and photocopies of others somewhere.

"Parlor/Parlour" is one of those descriptions/terms so often mis-used, like Jumbo (not an SJ200 style - which is a "Super jumbo" and a real "Jumbo" (i.e., Like a J-45) is not a slope dread, which is better applied to the original 12 fret dread, etc., etc.

[sinistral]

I’m not sure that smaller bodied guitars ever went completely out of style, but the folk boom of the 1950s and 1960s definitely helped bring them into the mainstream. While not strictly “parlor” guitars, Bob Dylan played a lot of “smaller” bodied guitars. One of the earliest was a 1949 Martin 00-17, as well as this Gibson Nick Lucas:



Here playing Joan Baez’s Martin 0-45 a the 1964 Newport Folk Festival:



And a 1950’s 00-21:



In this video, Dick Boak, who has forgotten more about guitars—and certainly Martin guitars—than most people know, refers to Joan Baez’s 1920s 0-45 as a parlor guitar:

https://youtu.be/HaCG8DQyASw?si=K8vFI7orr5J8eM9T&t=276

So there you have it—if Dick Boak refers to a 0 as a parlor guitar, in this day and age, it probably is a parlor guitar.

Probably one of the most iconic “true” parlor guitars of folk era is Bobbie Gentry’s 5-18:



Silly Moustache brings up a similar point about the distinction between dreadnought and jumbo. While Gibson makes dreadnoughts (the Hummingbird and the Dove) based on Martin’s shape, to the purists, Gibson J models are jumbos and not “slope-shouldered dreadnoughts.”. Unfortunately, even Gibson uses that term on their website and other marketing literature, so all hope is lost.