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  #16  
Old 05-11-2021, 06:54 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
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Originally Posted by AllHat,NoCattle View Post
What a fantastic community this is. The “new guy” posts a question that takes more than it gives, and ~24 hours later receives 10 thoughtful responses. A huge thank you to everyone that took the time to respond. I’ll try to give back later in the year, if anyone is interested in following a Circa (John Slobod) custom build.

Interesting that the Edwinas are a little controversial.

Sounds like the consensus is that I need to slow down before I pull the trigger on this, and think carefully about both treatment of the recording space and, as Chris suggested offline, what mic will work best for my voice. Although I’ve played for 35 years, I’ve never seriously pursued DIY recording beyond low cost mics (AT3035, AKG SDCs around same price point) until now. Business pursuits & some luck have made it easier to pursue at 50 than at 20. Although I’m in a home office recording situation right now, I will build out a proper studio space at some point in the future, so I’m viewing this mic as a foundational piece. But the current space constraints point me to a very simple setup that can be easily moved around, but won’t be jettisoned when I improve the recording space. The plan is to start with a great mic and supplement with a pre-amp and audio interface of similar quality.

Another noob question to help move to the next step: is there a practical way to demo a bunch of LDCs in one shot, other than a) visiting a shop like Vintage King when they fully re-open, or b) renting studio time? Are there suppliers other than Vintage King that anyone can recommend that allow customers to try multiple mics at the same time (for reference, I’m in Northern California)?

Thanks again for your generosity in sharing what you’ve learned.
Audio Test Kitchen may be useful to you.

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  #17  
Old 05-11-2021, 07:52 AM
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KevWind KevWind is offline
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Originally Posted by AllHat,NoCattle View Post
I’m hoping to tap into the collective wisdom of this Board, whose members have forgotten more about recording than I’ll ever learn.

I’m looking for a high-end LDC that can be used for single mic recording of vintage Martins (‘38 D-18) and singing. I do a lot of cross picking and strumming— rock, folk and bluegrass. Voice is high baritone. This mic will be used 90% for solo recording, but I’d like something that also works well for an acoustic duo or trio, gathering ‘round the mic.

I’ve been impressed with the Milk Carton Kids’ work on a single Ear Trumpet Labs Edwina, and I’m wondering if there’s a higher end mic that can be used in the same way. For simplicity’s sake, I’d rather avoid the large external units of the classic tube mics.

So with that background and a $5K budget, I’ve been looking at the U89 (new), U87Ai (new), and Gefell UM900 (new). How do you think those mics would perform in that scenario? Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated....
As has been noted selecting a mic for ones voice is so very dependent on the actual specific voice involved.
Also you have not (but probably should) list what your equipment chain that this mic will plug into like mic pre, converters, interface, etc. involved ? And you need to be even more specific is the small ensemble situation for recording or performing ?

That said ::: I would say yes definitely take your time
Consider like sdelsolray mentioned that what you are actually talking about are
different applications seems like ?
#1 recording vocals
#2 recording solo guitar
#3 recording a small ensemble
for which a "one mic does all" may not really be the best solution (especially considering the $5k budget you state) I am thinking at that budget range you can get an excellent LDC mic for your voice and good SDC for solo guitar ( or even eventually a pair of SDC's for guitar )
As I see it honestly I would at least be considering 1 LDC and 1 SDC to get started (with the idea of adding a second SDC later. Or go right to 1 LDC and pair of SDC's

Also I would suggest that the notion that a tube mic power supply being one more box (while true ) is somehow an "issue" or problem is arguably more imagination of logistics than reality in the big picture. Especially considering that Tube mic's represent a significant and very important portion of the LDC market and could well be the best suited to your voice and needs. But that also does not discount or eliminate considering a great FET mic

Now I also have what I would also consider "high baritone" lower tenor voice.

So from personal experience I can say the mic's I have liked on my voice are (in no particular order) A Neumann 87 ai FET --- A Brauner Phantom V FET (which I own and is excellent ) Brauner Valvet Tube --- Perlman TM1 Tube----- Neumann 149 tube (which IMO is overpriced ) ---ADK Z Mod 67 Tube ---- ADK Z Mod 251 Tube ( which I chose for my specific voice over the ADK 67 and is now my go to Vocal mic)
Honestly I am guessing any of these mics will do a great job for you.

Because in an actual shootout at a professional recording studio of the my Brauner Phantom V, the ADK Z Mod 67, and ADK Z Mod 251... While I chose and ultimately purchased the 251,,,, these mics were all very very close over all, and it was only by a very subtle few percent, that I thought the 251 was over the other two.

Here is a sample of the ADK 251 on vocal and a pair of AEA N 22 Ribbons on guitar (note this was done "performance style" the Rhythm guitar and vocal were recorded at the same time so there is some bleed)


Here is the Brauner Phantom V ...This done "overdub style" recorded the guitar part first with two mics the Phantom V LDC and a single Schopes CMC6-MK4 SDC then the vocal was dubbed with the Phantom V
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Last edited by KevWind; 05-11-2021 at 08:15 AM.
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  #18  
Old 05-11-2021, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by philipgraham View Post
…Hope this helps!
Hi Philip

Yes, it does help!! Thanks for taking time to post about differences…




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  #19  
Old 05-11-2021, 05:06 PM
AllHat,NoCattle AllHat,NoCattle is offline
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
As has been noted selecting a mic for ones voice is so very dependent on the actual specific voice involved.
Also you have not (but probably should) list what your equipment chain that this mic will plug into like mic pre, converters, interface, etc. involved ? And you need to be even more specific is the small ensemble situation for recording or performing ?

That said ::: I would say yes definitely take your time
Consider like sdelsolray mentioned that what you are actually talking about are
different applications seems like ?
#1 recording vocals
#2 recording solo guitar
#3 recording a small ensemble
for which a "one mic does all" may not really be the best solution (especially considering the $5k budget you state) I am thinking at that budget range you can get an excellent LDC mic for your voice and good SDC for solo guitar ( or even eventually a pair of SDC's for guitar )
As I see it honestly I would at least be considering 1 LDC and 1 SDC to get started (with the idea of adding a second SDC later. Or go right to 1 LDC and pair of SDC's

Also I would suggest that the notion that a tube mic power supply being one more box (while true ) is somehow an "issue" or problem is arguably more imagination of logistics than reality in the big picture. Especially considering that Tube mic's represent a significant and very important portion of the LDC market and could well be the best suited to your voice and needs. But that also does not discount or eliminate considering a great FET mic

Now I also have what I would also consider "high baritone" lower tenor voice.

So from personal experience I can say the mic's I have liked on my voice are (in no particular order) A Neumann 87 ai FET --- A Brauner Phantom V FET (which I own and is excellent ) Brauner Valvet Tube --- Perlman TM1 Tube----- Neumann 149 tube (which IMO is overpriced ) ---ADK Z Mod 67 Tube ---- ADK Z Mod 251 Tube ( which I chose for my specific voice over the ADK 67 and is now my go to Vocal mic)
Honestly I am guessing any of these mics will do a great job for you.

Because in an actual shootout at a professional recording studio of the my Brauner Phantom V, the ADK Z Mod 67, and ADK Z Mod 251... While I chose and ultimately purchased the 251,,,, these mics were all very very close over all, and it was only by a very subtle few percent, that I thought the 251 was over the other two.

Here is a sample of the ADK 251 on vocal and a pair of AEA N 22 Ribbons on guitar (note this was done "performance style" the Rhythm guitar and vocal were recorded at the same time so there is some bleed)


Here is the Brauner Phantom V ...This done "overdub style" recorded the guitar part first with two mics the Phantom V LDC and a single Schopes CMC6-MK4 SDC then the vocal was dubbed with the Phantom V
Thanks a TON for the time that went into this... you and the rest of the contributors have given me a lot to chew on. Really appreciate it.
AHNC
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  #20  
Old 05-12-2021, 02:29 PM
lukegard22 lukegard22 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
And about the Edwina -- if you had one in hand alongside one of the many decent U47 clones available now, you might not think the Edwina sounds all that great. Looks cool, though.
I would second the vote for a 47 style. It will capture the warmth and "jangle" of a vintage acoustic while letting the vocals sit in the mix correctly.
5k budget for a mic? Geez. I'm green with envy. Make sure you have a good preamp and compressor to go with it.
The Edwina's are nice, but to me they are Beta 87C's with better marketing.
Take all of that with a grain of salt, though, as there are thousands and thousands of recording guys who are smarter than me!
P.s. There is a Lawson 47-style mic in the classifieds, last I checked, and that would be an excellent purchase!
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Last edited by lukegard22; 05-13-2021 at 08:33 AM.
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  #21  
Old 05-15-2021, 07:27 AM
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KevWind KevWind is offline
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Originally Posted by lukegard22 View Post
I would second the vote for a 47 style. It will capture the warmth and "jangle" of a vintage acoustic while letting the vocals sit in the mix correctly.
5k budget for a mic? Geez. I'm green with envy. Make sure you have a good preamp and compressor to go with it.
The Edwina's are nice, but to me they are Beta 87C's with better marketing.
Take all of that with a grain of salt, though, as there are thousands and thousands of recording guys who are smarter than me!
P.s. There is a Lawson 47-style mic in the classifieds, last I checked, and that would be an excellent purchase!
I actually have recorded through the Lawson 47 at a studio in Nashville. And while I think it is a great mic my sense was it was better suited for rockers with louder vocals and but over all very usable for a studio to be a good multi purpose mic . But for my voice when I went to choose a vocal mic it was not on my personal list as I wanted more air in the upper mids .

That said: Here is me through the Lawson on more of a rock type song

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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev...


KevWind at Soundcloud

Recording System :
Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2021.3 .....Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen processor,,128GB 2666MHz DDR4 memory,,2TB SSD storage,,Radeon Pro 5700 XT with 16GB of GDDR6 memory,, on Catalina 10.15.7
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