Connecting AMP 1/4" TRS Line Out to Mixer options.

[Dru Edwards]

Hi Everyone. I'm looking at a bunch of amp specs and I noticed that some amps have a 1/4" TRS Line out rather than XLR. What's the best option (if any) for an amp with a 1/4" TRS Line out to go to a mixer, which would feed a PA?

1/4" amp Line Out --> 1/4" mixer in
1/4" amp Line Out --> "box" that outputs XLR --> XLR mixer in (what would that "box" be?)

Given your preference, would you rather have "XLR amp out" to "XLR mixer in" or does it make little difference if 1/4" TRS is used?

Thanks

[MODELL]

They actual make cables with one xlr end and one trs 1/4" end. Taylor has one to go from the ES directly to a mixer. Is your trs out a headphone out? I thought most 1/4" line outs on amps were ts.

[RustyAxe]

Either will work ... but if the PA is more than 20 away low-impedance XLR line will better. I'd opt to take the line out from amp to a passive DI (a ground lift can be useful here), then XLR to the PA. That will always work. And yes, I much prefer a dedicated XLR DI with a level control and ground lift on the amp.

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by Dru Edwards

Hi Everyone. I'm looking at a bunch of amp specs and I noticed that some amps have a 1/4" TRS Line out rather than XLR. What's the best option (if any) for an amp with a 1/4" TRS Line out to go to a mixer, which would feed a PA?

1/4" amp Line Out --> 1/4" mixer in
1/4" amp Line Out --> "box" that outputs XLR --> XLR mixer in (what would that "box" be?)

Given your preference, would you rather have "XLR amp out" to "XLR mixer in" or does it make little difference if 1/4" TRS is used?

Thanks

If the line out on the amp is actually TRS (not TS), then it's balanced and exactly like an XLR output except in terms of the kind of connector it takes. So you can use a TRS to TRS cable to go into a 1/4" line input on a mixer (these are usually balanced) and it won't matter how long the cable is. Since you're calling it a "line out," I'm assuming it's line level.

You could also use a 1/4" TRS to male XLR cable to go into a mic input on a mixer, but if it is line level, the signal might be a little hot for that without a pad.

If the line out is 1/4" TS, which is common, then it's not balanced. You can go right into a 1/4" line input on a mixer using a regular instrument cable (TS). The signal will be strong enough and probably the correct impedance, but you won't be able to use a long cable run to do it. Note that it won't do any good to use a TRS cable. That won't balance the signal and will be just like using a regular TS cable. If you need a long run, you will have to plug a short cable into a DI box and go from there with an XLR cable into a mic input on the mixer. The box will not only balance the signal, but step it down to mic level.

So: take a careful look at your amp's specs., then go from there.

Louis

[Dru Edwards]

Modell, Rusty, Louis - thanks for the info. The amp in question is the Traynor AM Studio (65w) and the specs state:

• Line Out - 1/4 inch TRS
• Line Out Level (Vrms) - 1

Does anyone know how to interpret the Line Out Level?

Thanks.

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by Dru Edwards

Modell, Rusty, Louis - thanks for the info. The amp in question is the Traynor AM Studio (65w) and the specs state:

• Line Out - 1/4 inch TRS
• Line Out Level (Vrms) - 1

Does anyone know how to interpret the Line Out Level?

Thanks.

It's a balanced signal. I'm not sure how to interpret those numbers, myself, but there's an easy to find out what you need to know. Hook it up to a balanced 1/4" input of a mixer and see if there's enough gain. If there is, it's in the line-level range and you will be fine with whatever length of TRS cable you need to use. If the signal is too weak, then it's mic level and you'll need to use a TRS to male XLR to go into a mic input. I doubt that this is the case, however. Note that you might be able to go into a mic input with the TRS to XLR cable anyway. A low input gain setting on the mixer may be able to accommodate it, and the input gain setting on the amp will affect this level, too. If it's still too hot, then use the line input or engage a pad. It shouldn't really matter. Just use the mixer input that best accommodates the level of the signal. You won't need to worry about length unless you use an unbalanced cable. I'd get a couple of each kind of cable or a couple of TRS cables and a TRS to XLR male adaptor if you don't know what PAs you'll be using. Doesn't hurt to have a DI box on hand, too. Boy Scout thing. Be prepared.

L.

[Dru Edwards]

Originally Posted by lschwart

It's a balanced signal. I'm not sure how to interpret those numbers, myself, but there's an easy to find out what you need to know. Hook it up to a balanced 1/4" input of a mixer and see if there's enough gain. If there is, it's in the line-level range and you will be fine with whatever length of TRS cable you need to use. If the signal is too weak, then it's mic level and you'll need to use a TRS to male XLR to go into a mic input. I doubt that this is the case, however. Note that you might be able to go into a mic input with the TRS to XLR cable anyway. A low input gain setting on the mixer may be able to accommodate it, and the input gain setting on the amp will affect this level, too. If it's still too hot, then use the line input or engage a pad. It shouldn't really matter. Just use the mixer input that best accommodates the level of the signal. You won't need to worry about length unless you use an unbalanced cable. I'd get a couple of each kind of cable or a couple of TRS cables and a TRS to XLR male adaptor if you don't know what PAs you'll be using. Doesn't hurt to have a DI box on hand, too. Boy Scout thing. Be prepared.

L.

Thanks Louis - I appreciate the feedback.

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by Dru Edwards

Thanks Louis - I appreciate the feedback.

Let us know how it works out!

Louis

[pieterh]

I would be tempted to connect trs to xlr to be on the safe side, not all mixers line inputs are balanced. On the other hand, if the input is the combined type then you should be ok - but then you can connect trs-xlr anyway!

Having said that, some mixers have global phantom power through xlr inputs which may not be appreciated by your amp's output...

Hmm, rather complicated this, isn't it...

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Dru Edwards

Hi Everyone. I'm looking at a bunch of amp specs and I noticed that some amps have a 1/4" TRS Line out rather than XLR. What's the best option (if any) for an amp with a 1/4" TRS Line out to go to a mixer, which would feed a PA?

1/4" amp Line Out --> 1/4" mixer in
1/4" amp Line Out --> "box" that outputs XLR --> XLR mixer in (what would that "box" be?)

Given your preference, would you rather have "XLR amp out" to "XLR mixer in" or does it make little difference if 1/4" TRS is used?

Thanks

Hi Dru
For distance from guitar chain to PA mixer over 15 feet, XLR to PA snake/board is better. It will be properly impedance matched, and will allow long runs (hundreds of feet) without signal loss.

If the mixer is next to the amp, either can work. Be aware, I've mixed sound for a lot of bands, and the output sections of acoustic amps vary in quality. And some are pre-EQ/Master out and others Post EQ/Master out.

And some acoustic amp out sections overdrive quite easily.

Best Option to feed my signal to the house…
Even though I have a good acoustic amp, and it's output section works fine, I still prefer to drop a passive Direct Box between my guitar chain and the amp/PA. I feed both my amp and PA simultaneously and separately. This is simpler and universally adaptable whether I show up with an acoustic amp or not.

My chain is Guitar-->preamp-->separate simultaneous feeds to Amp (¼")/PA(XLR).

That way if I change the tone or volume on my amp, the PA is not affected. The sound techs prefer it that if I'm going to adjust my stage volume it not be echoed in the house. They've gone to a lot of work to get the house setup right and don't want me to twist a knob and throw it off.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Dru Edwards

Modell, Rusty, Louis - thanks for the info. The amp in question is the Traynor AM Studio (65w) and the specs state:

• Line Out - 1/4 inch TRS
• Line Out Level (Vrms) - 1

Does anyone know how to interpret the Line Out Level?

Thanks.

The Traynor spec is 1 volt rms. This does not mean that a 1 volt signal constantly comes from its line output jack. What it means is that 1 volt is the nominal operating level of the output. Sometimes it will be lower (a soft strum from your guitar) or greater (a strong strum with a shouting vocal).

Accepted nominal line output levels are as follows:

a) -10 dBV standard aka consumer level. Under this standard, 1 volt = 0 dBv. -10 dBV = 0.316 volts. The nominal operating level for this standard is 0.316 volts.

b) +4 dBu standard aka professional level. Under this standard, 1 volt = +2 dBu. +4 dBu = 1.23 volts. The nominal operating level for this standard is 1.23 volts.

Your amp is closer to the professional standard than the consumer standard. To be safe, any mixer that you use to receive the amp's line out signal should have a +4 dBu nominal line input.

Incidentally, headroom is the amount of gain (measured in dB) above the nominal operating level before distortion. So, a device with 12 dB of headroom will not begin to distort until the signal reaches (a) +2 dBV or 1.26 volts (under the consumer standard) or (b) +16 dBu or 4.89 volts (under the professional standard).

All of the above assumes the amp's output and the mixer's input are balanced circuits. If the output is balanced but the input is unbalanced, subtract 6 dB from the above calculations.

[Paleolith54]

For those recommending an XLR connection as better, please correct me if I'm wrong. I thought both an XLR and 1/4" TRS (not TS) provide balanced signals and offered the same benefits. Is this not correct? Thanks.

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by Paleolith54

For those recommending an XLR connection as better, please correct me if I'm wrong. I thought both an XLR and 1/4" TRS (not TS) provide balanced signals and offered the same benefits. Is this not correct? Thanks.

As long as both the input and the output are balanced, 1/4" TRS will offer the same benefits as XLR. The 1/4" line inputs on the channels of most modern mixers are balanced TRS. The difference is that the XLR inputs are usually for mic-level signals, not line level signals. So they offer more gain because they are expecting a weaker signal. Sending a line-level signal into one with a TRS to male XLR cable can sometimes overdrive those inputs unless there's a pad in line somewhere (or a volume control on the output).

Louis

[Paleolith54]

Originally Posted by lschwart

As long as both the input and the output are balanced, 1/4" TRS will offer the same benefits as XLR. The 1/4" line inputs on the channels of most modern mixers are balanced TRS. The difference is that the XLR inputs are usually for mic-level signals, not line level signals. So they offer more gain because they are expecting a weaker signal. Sending a line-level signal into one with a TRS to male XLR cable can sometimes overdrive those inputs unless there's a pad in line somewhere (or a volume control on the output).

Louis

I understand, have learned something new, thanks.

[Dru Edwards]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Dru
For distance from guitar chain to PA mixer over 15 feet, XLR to PA snake/board is better. It will be properly impedance matched, and will allow long runs (hundreds of feet) without signal loss.

If the mixer is next to the amp, either can work. Be aware, I've mixed sound for a lot of bands, and the output sections of acoustic amps vary in quality. And some are pre-EQ/Master out and others Post EQ/Master out.

And some acoustic amp out sections overdrive quite easily.

Best Option to feed my signal to the house…
Even though I have a good acoustic amp, and it's output section works fine, I still prefer to drop a passive Direct Box between my guitar chain and the amp/PA. I feed both my amp and PA simultaneously and separately. This is simpler and universally adaptable whether I show up with an acoustic amp or not.

My chain is Guitar-->preamp-->separate simultaneous feeds to Amp (¼")/PA(XLR).

That way if I change the tone or volume on my amp, the PA is not affected. The sound techs prefer it that if I'm going to adjust my stage volume it not be echoed in the house. They've gone to a lot of work to get the house setup right and don't want me to twist a knob and throw it off.

Thanks Larry. That makes sense.

Thanks to everyone for the input. I haven't bought the amp (and I don't think I will) but I was just wondering how one would go between the amp and mixer ... now I know there are a few options.