College Admissions Scandal....

[frankmcr]

<>The top tier way for rich people to get their kids into school is donating money for a new building at the college. <>

I don't mind that. That's a straightforward, out in the open quid pro quo. And the new building benefits hundreds or thousands of students every year besides the one who gets in because grampa donated it.

The situation here is cheating on tests, falsifying backgrounds, making under the table payments to fixers. Nobody benefits except the cheaters.

[Wadcutter]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

Of course not. It seems unlikely that those making the condemnations actually have any first hand experience with the system.

And likewise you have no evidence to support your statement.

[KeyofB#]

Originally Posted by frankmcr

I don't mind that. That's a straightforward, out in the open quid pro quo. And the new building benefits hundreds or thousands of students every year besides the one who gets in because grampa donated it.

The situation here is cheating on tests, falsifying backgrounds, making under the table payments to fixers. Nobody benefits except the cheaters.

Right, I agree to an extent about the comparison, for sure. But donations for buildings etc, are just that, donations. They are not “buy my kid into a school he/she otherwise would not have the scholastic chops to attend by merit alone.” It just further highlights the disparity of the non-rich vs the rich and their ability to advance based on character, hard work and grit (all of the qualities America is supposed to reward in theory) and not just daddy or mommy being and alumni and/or a multi-millionaire

[Nyghthawk]

Originally Posted by Wadcutter

And likewise you have no evidence to support your statement.

Between my maternal grandmother who taught freshman English at a major university here in Texas and a father that was head of the political science department at another and my own academic career, I have known 100+ dedicated, engaged university professors.

The statement that higher education is somehow entirely corrupt or rotten in some way is a sweeping generalization. It does not match my experience at all.

[Jim Owen]

Originally Posted by Kerbie

Agreed. The condemnations of higher education are baffling to me. I never experienced one minute of what some are attributing to the entire system.

Thanks, Kerbie, Paul, and Dirk.

I’m ticked at the students’ parents and at the professional fixer(s). But I can’t figure the rage at higher education. Higher education has served our nation well ever since the days of the GI bill.

I went to two state unis on the basis of good grades and better test scores. I am grateful for my education and grateful to the many college professors who helped and mentored me along the way. Thanks to them, I’ve been a fairly productive member of society.

I have in the past worked for one of the major academic testing companies. We spend a lot of time and resources assuring that every student’s test is marked fairly and accurately. Each test booklet is someone’s kid’s future. It hurts me where I live that some rich, privileged person cheats the system.

[ahorsewithnonam]

I’ll wait for you Lori!!!!

[815C]

I read that if convicted these folks face up to 20 years in prison. Yikes.

I'm sure there are folks out there who have done this same thing but who haven't been found out yet - and I would guess they are not sleeping well lately.

Another reminder that sometimes having a normal life ain't so bad.

[architype]

Originally Posted by 815C

I read that if convicted these folks face up to 20 years in prison. Yikes.

I'm sure there are folks out there who have done this same thing but who haven't been found out yet - and I would guess they are not sleeping well lately.

Another reminder that sometimes having a normal life ain't so bad.

The justice system works differently for rich folks too. I'll be surprised if any of them spend a day in jail. A slap on the wrist and a fine is all they will get.

The little people that facilitated the scam will probably do time....it's all their fault for entrapping those otherwise blameless rich folks into falling for it.


P.S.: I had a wonderful collegiate experience. I am thankful for the excellent teachers and professors I've had throughout my education. I learned critical thinking skills in college that have served me well to spot the phony B.S.'ers and scam artists that prey on those that can't quite connect the dots until it is too late. Long live higher education!

[RP]

Originally Posted by architype

The justice system works differently for rich folks too. I'll be surprised if any of them spend a day in jail. A slap on the wrist and a fine is all they will get...

Isn't that what the trusted advisors of Bill Cosby, Bernie Madoff, Phil Spector and Wesley Snipes told them???

[islandguitar]

Well, yes, it's certainly been an "interesting" week with this news!
As a 40+ year veteran admissions director and college consultant, I can assure you that the "air waves" are burning up in the profession as well. What these folks did is about as corrupt as it gets and I've seen a lot in my days!
A few thoughts:
I can also assure that the ethics within the college counseling /college admission ranks are constantly stressed with oversight and self study. There is a great deal of respect for the delicate role that office plays in decision making which are affecting the lives of young people.

Yes, money is going to play a part....we know this. And, this doesn't tilt only to the Ivies and other top tier places......it's pervasive in many institutions. I personally was once offered $100K to reverse a denial.....which might be 200K in today's dollars. I explained the appeal process to the father and asked for the son to write the letter of appeal himself......and to forward additional academics from his school at the next grading period. He didn't make it!

I was always leery of high powered business types (fathers) who I would go to great lengths to explain and counsel policy, process and what amounted to ethical standards. Only to hear the guy say, "I think we can do business together". What did they take from what I said? How much of a clash was there between the worlds of "business" and higher education? What were the expectations going on there? Often, no big deal.....at other times........."we have an issue".

Folks of great wealth EXPECT to be asked about contributions as their kids enter a college's admissions process or at least acknowledged for future possible contributions. They will gauge that college in part on how well they are "handled" and acknowledged to be in a position to donate. In other words, does this University have its act together. This is handled by development folks and does not invade admissions directly on a day to day basis. Admission may never know of any contact of this sort within other parts of the institution.

Most of the public doesn't realize the volume of phenomenal backgrounds and credentials which many of these institutions enjoy in their applicant pools. The volume and depth of kids from all over the world would be hard for the general public to appreciate as they understandably marvel at the credentials of their local student. It can be staggering. Some of the top tier colleges have an endowment which is sufficient to underwrite students of lesser means and make financial aid a non or lesser issue. And, there is always a lot of honest discussion about equal access, setting aside the issue of ability to pay and actually distancing from folks of wealth. A public school kid with a great story, in some instances will have an advantage over someone from a high powered private school.

It's sad that roughly 85% of students and families will apply to 10-15% of the colleges in the country. The toll of marketing and "sizzle" which has emerged in the last 10-20 years, by admissions, let's be clear..........has warped the perceptions of many. The old saying, "a college's reputation is based on who is turned away, not who is admitted" is unfortunate and a root of much of what we're living today. I'm saddened to see this.

so, there's a few thoughts on all this which might prove helpful. It doesn't in any way take from what these creeps did over the past 8 years or so!!

[H165]

I am curious as to what paths the both of you took , if you don't mind divulging them .

My father wanted nothing more than to get away from his family and head some other direction.

As you might imagine, I originally went to school to become a high school teacher. After taking a hard look at which high school teachers benefitted me most, I concluded that joining academia directly from academia, with no intervening life experiences, was not the right path for me. I concluded that I'd like to have some applied experience applicable to the subject I would later teach, but I never closed that loop by teaching.

Father - Education - E.E. (Electrical engineering) from UK at age 19. Work - Tobacco farm laborer (through Depression), Electrical engineering with progression within company to marketing, then to management.

Me - Education - B.A Psych; MBA finance; majority of my useful education came from maintaining a 1952 MG for over 50 years. Work (chronological): Truck builder, pro luthier, pattern maker, materials testing engineer, materials testing lab owner, code writer, regulated public utility manager, small business owner, helped build or rebuild a few houses, generally had a good time

[Otterhound]

Originally Posted by H165

My father wanted nothing more than to get away from his family and head some other direction.

As you might imagine, I originally went to school to become a high school teacher. After taking a hard look at which high school teachers benefitted me most, I concluded that joining academia directly from academia, with no intervening life experiences, was not the right path for me. I concluded that I'd like to have some applied experience applicable to the subject I would later teach, but I never closed that loop by teaching.

Father - Education - E.E. (Electrical engineering) from UK at age 19. Work - Tobacco farm laborer (through Depression), Electrical engineering with progression within company to marketing, then to management.

Me - Education - B.A Psych; MBA finance; majority of my useful education came from maintaining a 1952 MG for over 50 years. Work (chronological): Truck builder, pro luthier, pattern maker, materials testing engineer, materials testing lab owner, code writer, regulated public utility manager, small business owner, helped build or rebuild a few houses, generally had a good time

Well played . There are many ways to slice your life that are very rewarding .

[Mr. Paul]

Something I have not seen mentioned. The parents involved their children in this fraud. The kids understand the process and their role.

I am proud of my three grown sons. Involving them in this kind of fraud would have by definition made it impossible for them to become the fine young men I'd hoped for and worked towards.

Those kids are going to be a mess.

[H165]

Those kids are going to be a mess.

This is not set in concrete. Some kids eventually get around to thinking for themselves, despite their family history.

This whole mess reinforces my opinion that a person (parent, in this case) does not necessarily need common sense to be financially successful.

Like many parents, these wanted what they thought was best for their kids. Instead, they've permanently linked the kids to a scandal that will stick to them like good quality carpet tape.

[Dru Edwards]

What's a "Lawnmower Parent"? I saw the headline that the actor parents involved in this are lawnmorer parents. Never heard that term before.