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  #31  
Old 02-17-2019, 01:04 PM
Jaden Jaden is offline
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Last time I was at my local shop that carries a representative selection of Martin, Gibson and Taylor guitars on hand to try out with friendly, no pressure staff it looked like a ghost town with some very worried faces.

I’ve noticed the long term trend and am not happy about it.

I understand some live in isolated areas and must shop online. They are excused (humor).
  #32  
Old 02-17-2019, 01:31 PM
Manothemtns Manothemtns is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basalt Beach View Post
Except for an AGF classified purchase, and our Voyage Air, all of our six other guitars are purchased from a private owner B&M store long distance via the internet. No business environment is static, and Reverb, founded in 2013, (per their website story) has evolved and buyers have evolved. We recently learned from an "article" that fifty percent of new guitar purchases are by women, which is not something you would have expected 5, 10, 15 or 25 years ago, however those in the business who adapt and cater to their potential customers have a better chance to survive and thrive.

You may be extremely knowledgable, and be an unsung musician, however to be successful you also have to be a good at business, have a well thought business strategy and adapt to changing market conditions. Sure, large well known chain retailers are a challenge, however well run individual shops are thriving, and those that do not succeed, likely fail from a poor business model/strategy and/or poor management/customer service. Not limited to the retail instrument business, it is easy to blame others or market conditions, rather than look inwardly and examine yourself for business failures.

I hope the individual well run privately owned B&M continues to survive and does so by managing the business in the successful manner which makes it so today.


Welcome to the world’s most popular music gear website.
Reverb is the online marketplace for musicians to buy, sell and learn about new, used, vintage and handmade music gear. When Reverb launched in 2013, it was founded on the principle that buying and selling musical instruments should be easy and affordable. Since then we’ve become a thriving marketplace that connects millions of people around the world to the gear and the inspiration needed to make music.
The Reverb Marketplace is made up of hundreds of thousands of buyers and sellers – from beginner musicians to collectors, mom-and-pop shops to large retailers, and popular manufacturers to boutique builders and luthiers. You might even run into some of your favorite rock stars buying and selling on Reverb!
I'm not blaming Reverb or internet sales blankly. I'm simply trying to reach an audience that can still potentially be swayed into spending with a conscience. It's a free market...Reverb for me was great while it lasted. But in my mind, by allowing large wholesalers and big box retailers free access then, comparatively speaking, access becomes more expensive for the independent buyers and sellers who end up holding the bag of ideals they were sold...only to have to resell the ideals at a now significantly lower price. Your parable about the one truly great shop in your area is identical to how deftly Strait Music in Austin has handled the paradigm shift and I, like you, sing their praises to anyone who will listen. I believe we're saying the same thing...at least for the most part, and I appreciate you're well thought-out response.
  #33  
Old 02-17-2019, 01:36 PM
Manothemtns Manothemtns is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shortfinger View Post
Your original post could have used some more paragraph breaks. Hard for me to get into one that has 'graphs six and seven or more lines long.



My only guitar that was bought from a store preceded the internet by 25 years.
Yes, I've been told it was "wordy". I guess one man's wordy is another man's well written post. But paragraph breaks, yes, you are right. My apologies for being long winded. It's a complicated subject to cover halfway decently.
  #34  
Old 02-17-2019, 01:42 PM
menhir menhir is offline
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The world is not going adapt it's buying or selling choices, spend more money than they have to, nor be looked down upon because they chose to purchase from vendors that sell to the great unwashed masses that some people consider are below them, just to make life easier for someone else to get the price they want for a guitar. Get used to it. Get over it.

It's just history repeating itself...again.

And frankly, a guitar that is purchased and ends up in a closet is still money in the maker's and seller's pocket and if they ain't making money, they're gonna stop making guitars.
  #35  
Old 02-17-2019, 01:58 PM
tippy5 tippy5 is offline
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My coastal Southern CA town has 45 B&M businesses with for lease signs. Yet the tourist dollar is still strong in other businesses. My town has had 2 acoustic instrument stores for the last 30 years. They seem to be slow but it's like anything when a real great acoustic "buy" comes in it is scooped up, and there sits the remaining 3 or 4 dozen guitars. I do not know their ledger sheets.

I think having Reverb, CL, AGF, TGP and eBay are beneficial for seasoned buyers. Although I will be the first to say that judging an online used guitar (book by it's cover) is a mystery after buying and selling 50 acoustics in 50 years. With a stable of 6 or 7 baseline for the last 15.

What I like about Reverb is that they initially drove eBay's exorbitant fee from 9 to 3.5% in the Musical Instruments category. Since then they have both increased slightly. But how nice it is to be a seasoned seller with the above 5 avenues to recoup hopefully 80% of your purchase?

Who knows where it will be in 5 years. They're making 600 production guitars a day at Fender.

I am in it for the love of playing. I do feel sorry for honest retailers and eBay account stores that have apparently lost their profit. Pivoting in a changing marketplace seems to be hard.
  #36  
Old 02-17-2019, 02:51 PM
Mycroft Mycroft is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasinaz View Post
I'd be willing to spend a little extra money to support a small local business, but not over 30% more. That's what I found when looking for a discontinued model of guitar I was shopping for a few months ago. I found the same guitar for 33% less at a large internet store.
Did the local store have the instrument in stock, so that you could actually play it. If not patronized, they won't be for long. Consider the difference in overhead between a brick and motor retail shop and a warehouse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasinaz View Post
Internet shopping has affected more than just guitar shops; low overhead and high volume sales result in lower consumer prices.
Yes, but musical instruments are a bit different than running shoes or shirts. Each guitar may be a bit different from the next, seemingly identical, model. While a pair of Nikes is probably just like the next pair of Nikes.
  #37  
Old 02-17-2019, 02:56 PM
Manothemtns Manothemtns is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Did the local store have the instrument in stock, so that you could actually play it. If not patronized, they won't be for long. Consider the difference in overhead between a brick and motor retail shop and a warehouse.



Yes, but musical instruments are a bit different than running shoes or shirts. Each guitar may be a bit different from the next, seemingly identical, model. While a pair of Nikes is probably just like the next pair of Nikes.
Valid point...thx.
  #38  
Old 02-17-2019, 02:59 PM
Manothemtns Manothemtns is offline
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Reverb did hit eBay initially. That was what their initial plan was concieved on.
  #39  
Old 02-17-2019, 02:59 PM
Mycroft Mycroft is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstaight View Post
The shop I frequent price matches his guitars to what is found on the internet. He hopes to make it up with service. He actually gives a 50% discount on yearly service if you bought the instrument from him.

He worked at another local store and routinely had people come in to try something. They would by it on line and then bring it to them for repair or setup.

If you want something just to have that one ok, get it on line.

Small shops understand if you are shopping brands. But it is just plain rude to go to a small shop and test drive their inventory and buy the same thing online.
People use to try out guitars at my friend's store, then buy it online to save $50 on something like a 03-series Larrivee. They would then bring the online-bought guitar in and complain that it didn't play as nicely as his did, so there must be something wrong with it. He would point out that he went through every instrument he was selling and tweek the setup, nut slots, and frets before putting his on the floor.

Then they would be outraged that for him to do the same on their guitar would cost more than then have saved...
  #40  
Old 02-17-2019, 03:01 PM
Paddy1951 Paddy1951 is offline
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I have 6 guitars. I enjoy them all. Only one of them was purchased new. My oldest Martin, 20 years old, almost.
None of them were purchased online or from GC or other big box stores.
I place value on customer service. I like to have a place/ person to go back to.
I enjoy having knowledgeable people to talk to and do business with. I don't feel like I overpaid for any of my guitars. They were competitively priced. Not the absolute lowest priced, but competitive and there is value in peace of mind with excellent customer service.

I do business with 2 locally owned shops. I am happy to do so. I hope they will continue to thrive with their businesses.

Oh, and unlike Amazon, they fairly pay taxes.

Last edited by Paddy1951; 02-17-2019 at 04:49 PM.
  #41  
Old 02-17-2019, 03:19 PM
Manothemtns Manothemtns is offline
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I like this post. It exemplifies what I was hoping to hear.
  #42  
Old 02-17-2019, 03:27 PM
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Brucebubs Brucebubs is offline
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I live in a small rural town.
Nearest music store is 50 miles away.
When I asked if they could come close to the internet price I found on a new Maton 12-string they refused to talk money and told me to buy it online.... so I did.
Their prices for strings are nearly double on some brands.
I go out of my way to not use them.
I don't care if they close down.

The internet opened a whole new source for me.

I bought my Guild F-412, Martin JDP II, Alvarez ABT-60, Rickenbacker 4003, Taylor 355 and 422 and 4 kit guitars from the USA.

I buy strings from Strings By Mail, Strings & Beyond and Elderly Instruments.

I'm sorry if anyone finds this offensive.
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Last edited by Brucebubs; 02-17-2019 at 03:34 PM.
  #43  
Old 02-17-2019, 03:31 PM
ezra1 ezra1 is offline
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I do live behind the Pine Curtain in the sticks.
I am a veteran of the Dallas Guitar Shows since the late 80s.
A trip to Austin,Houston or Dallas is tiring due to the trip and the traffic. There is no guarantee I will find what I am interested in. I mostly buy used instruments.
So.....Reverb allows me the opportunity to seek out certain years of guitars ( say a 1950 J-45 ) sold by whomever.Big shop or individuals. I can ask pertinent questions.
It is a win for me.
I can do so 24/7 in the comfort of my home.
  #44  
Old 02-17-2019, 03:41 PM
AZLiberty AZLiberty is offline
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The very premise is flawed.

Other than Musician's Friend (who is not actually that competitive) every internet retailer that I have purchased from actually IS a Brick and Mortar company as well.

If your local B&M can't compete, it's because they are not competitive.


Elderly Instruments - Extensive B&M in addition to internet sales.
LA Guitar Sales - Nice, high end, B&M in addition to internet sales
My Favorite Guitar - B&M Retail shop in addition to internet sales.
Wildwood - Same

So if your brick and mortar local shop is going under, it's being killed by other B&M shops, that actually know how to compete in a modern economy.

Even in the dark times before the web, local shops mostly survived on band rentals, accessories, strings, and music lessons. Also used sales. Where the web has really made a difference is in the markup on used items, it's leveled the playing field because it's much easier to comparison shop. And of course, a large number of instruments being sold on Reverb are also being sold by small Brick and Mortar instrument (and pawn) shops, who are using it as a platform to expand their customer base.
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  #45  
Old 02-17-2019, 03:51 PM
Atomnimity Atomnimity is offline
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My two guitars I purchased recently (to get back into playing after many years) came from Alamo Music in San Antonio. I live in Florida. I connected with Alamo via the internet (Thank you Gary and Chris). Subsequently, I developed a relationship with them and will always check their inventory if I need anything. It was the relationship - price that drew me to them. So the internet was involved. If used properly it is a useful tool even for smaller businesses.

I wanted the gold G7th Special edition kapo and could not find it anywhere in the states. I ordered it off the G7th website - they are in UK. It was here the next day - not sure how? Developed a relationship with Simon Campling at G7th. Tried to hook him up with Alamo Music at NAMM lol. Internet can be a powerful tool - too powerful?
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