The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #46  
Old 02-17-2019, 08:49 AM
RussL30 RussL30 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jackson MS
Posts: 1,573
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steadfastly View Post
Here is another new one that you may like. He does a lot of covers and does them well but this is one he wrote.


Thanks for posting, I’ve listened to Mo Pitney. I don’t like all of his songs. If he’s really talented and has some really good stuff. Definitely better than almost anything on Nashville radio.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmz76 View Post

The reality of what puts the country in country music

In this post iTunes, Spotify streaming world where tangible music and digital sales have both dropped through the floor there's been a consolidation of genres... Southern Rock and a lot of Pop, lately even R&B has fused into the modern country sound... Chart topping pop Songwriters have moved to Nashville, session players, producers. At a NSAI (Nashville Songwriters Association International) meeting, I once heard a guest lecturer who was from an established Publisher in Nashville talk about how artist from around the country are coming to Nashville and paying voice style coaches to put "twang in their voices". We are at a point where that slight hint of twang in the singers voice is the biggest thing that defines a song as country. Well, that and of course the signature sound it will have coming from the small circle of Producers, Session Players, Songwriters and Mastering Engineers. Collectively that relatively small group play their part in the product that defines modern country music. As time goes on they slowly get swapped out and the sound evolves as a result.

Fiddle? Steel Guitar? Maybe sampled,but not required! Nashville Songwriters are even using acoustic guitars less and less these days. They are following the Hip Hop process. They often are not writing with acoustic guitar in hand, they are writing with a Native Instruments Maschine rhythm programmer in hand. It's all about the unique beats and melodies, that Hip Hop like lyrical burst in phrasing. Song structures change over time, this is a natural progression. It's just what it is. But if it's not your thing it all sounds the same.

What I think puts the country in country music.
In the giant sea of mainstream country acts occasionally a "throwback artist" comes into the mix like Chris Simpleton. Chris Stapleton paid his dues, alongside Sturgill Simpson and others, the difference with Stapleton is that he had a long list of cuts from mainstream artist spanning a decade or more prior to the industry deciding they might could make some money and market him as recording artist. He really is a great Singer-Songwriter. His songs do chart and get radio play and he cleans up at award ceremonies. The type of country music he creates represents real country music to me.

But they aren't going to let too many Chris Stapleton's into the mainstream mix because an artist who writes all their own material ends up with more royalties and ultimately has more power because they don't need the label, Publisher, etc to keep bringing the songs (the one's written by a half dozen songwriters) to get the wheels turning. They are a bit dangerous to the larger system. I believe he's mostly there to fill an archetype, to reach outside the normal modern country music demographic and try to get people like me to tune in. It seems to be working for them.

If you want to hear great country music today, listen to artist like Jason Isbell and Sturgil Simpson. As usual there's a long list of great Texas country artist like Hayes Carll, Ryan Bingham, Ryan Beaver, Josh Grider to name a few. All making great music, all artist Nashville doesn't know what to do with so they have either tried and failed with them or haven't touched at all.
I think your analysis is spot on, but I just wanted to make a few comments.

I really like Stapleton and he is extremely versatile. He was awesome singing bluegrass in the Steel Drivers and doing Southern rock with the Jompson Brothers. He also wrote a few pop country hits so he could make his money while still playing the music he liked. This isn’t a shot to him; but I don’t consider him strictly country. If you listen to any one of his albums, one song might sound old school country (Last thing I Needed), another may sound like a pure old school rock song (Ex: Midnight Train to Memphis) and some if of may have a blues or R and B influence (Tennessee Whiskey or Friendship). I love his versatility and that’s what makes him unique. He has a special voice, but he definitely over sings more like a rock singer than a lot of the older more traditional country singers.

He may be the most traditional and country sounding artist on the radio, but I just can’t pigeon hole him as a pure country guy. He’s much more than that with his different sounds. I do think that his success shows that people crave good music, and would buy it if it was marketed and actually put on the radio.

As far as Sturgill and Isbell, their older stuff is great. Their newer stuff has moved to sounds that have gotten away from that and a lot of their stuff has become too political and whining.
__________________
Taylor- DN8, GS Mini
Gibson - Gospel Reissue, LG2 American Eagle
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 02-17-2019, 08:59 AM
UncleJesse UncleJesse is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 68
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie Voltaire View Post
I LOVE deconstructing songs to see how they're built!

It may not be true of the song you heard, but both lyrically and musically, you can trace many of country music's patterns all the way to their Celtic origins, and on through jazz and pop as well.

I would encourage you to check out Sturgill Simpson if you haven't yet -- I think he may have cracked the code on country songwriting.

He's a pretty fine player, too.

I love Sturgill. Another person who cracked the country songwriting code was Daniel Romano who may have just been doing it as performance art but in the process wrote some killer songs.

Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 02-17-2019, 09:51 AM
Rmz76 Rmz76 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,923
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RussL30 View Post
As far as Sturgill and Isbell, their older stuff is great. Their newer stuff has moved to sounds that have gotten away from that and a lot of their stuff has become too political and whining.
I don't know the specific songs you are reference, but I suspect that they are trying to follow in the footsteps of Guthrie, Dylan and Springsteen in reflecting more liberal sentiments and trying to be a voice "for the people". It's a big part of the American Folk Singer-Songwriter tradition. If your views are on the other side of the fence and you like them otherwise, I guess it can be annoying.

Choosing to go there as a Songwriter is going to divide the audience, when I was younger I was drawn to artist who had something political to say but these days I'm leaning more in line with you in that I think it can become pretentious really quick. Even if I agree with this perspective. It takes a very skilled writer to understand this and to tread the line. I think it's best achieved when the Songwriter doesn't preach in their lyrics but instead tells stories through their songs from the perspective of someone who might be feeling held down by the system. Make me feel the impact of whatever your protest is and then I can appreciate it. Springsteen often crosses the line in public statements, but as a songwriter he's a a master at this approach. I think he does it tactfully as the master craftsman that he is. I think Isbell has done it successful a few times as well, Dress Blues is a good example.
__________________
Wayne


J-45 song of the day archive
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis..._Zmxz51NAwG1UJ

My music
https://soundcloud.com/waynedeats76
https://www.facebook.com/waynedeatsmusic

My guitars
Gibson, Martin, Blueridge, Alvarez, Takamine
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 02-17-2019, 11:44 AM
Charmed Life Picks's Avatar
Charmed Life Picks Charmed Life Picks is offline
AGF Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 6,141
Default

I suppose this might be slightly off-topic, but wanted share.

Everyone knows that famous saying about country music: "Three chords and the truth."

I heard another one recently, I think on here: "There's no money above the third fret."

Kinda says it all.
__________________
Best Hi-End Pick Selection in the Industry:
More Than Twenty Models to Choose From,
in Five Different Materials: https://www.charmedlifepicks.com/online-store

"I bought some powdered water -- but I don't know what to add." (Steven Wright)
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 02-17-2019, 11:51 AM
rwmct rwmct is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,011
Default

Not much analysis of what makes a country song (good, bad, or indifferent) country.

Here is an example that seems interesting to me: Emmylou Harris' live version of Carl Perkin's Restless from the Last Date album.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRDnHqGSysA

This song has some of the hottest country guitar playing I know of. The solos absolutely smoke. But I would argue that the sound is clearly country and not rock, and while it is in origin a rockabilly number, it comes down well on the "billy" side of rockabilly.

So. There has to be something that makes it come across as country. Tone? The notes played? Where they are played on the neck?
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 02-17-2019, 01:04 PM
DukeX DukeX is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,637
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks View Post
I suppose this might be slightly off-topic, but wanted share.

Everyone knows that famous saying about country music: "Three chords and the truth."

I heard another one recently, I think on here: "There's no money above the third fret."

Kinda says it all.
I guess somebody forgot to tell Brad Paisley, Vince Gill, Keith Urban, and hundreds of other legendary (and thousands of not legendary) guitarists that.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 02-17-2019, 01:12 PM
Steadfastly Steadfastly is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Minto, NB
Posts: 3,609
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KitKat1 View Post
Hijacking the thread I guess, but since Mo Pitney has been brought up maybe its forgivable to cross genres for a second... there's just nothing like good ol' bluegrass for those who crave the old sounds and who love to participate. Jams like this are enjoyed everywhere, although the singing isn't usually this good, and the banjo picker, wow. Ok, apologies for tumbling into a Mo Pitney rabbit hole and wanting to share!
https://youtu.be/Sz7_cYpgshM
I fell in too and there ain't nothing wrong with that.
__________________
Mr. Big Hands Playing Wide Neck Guitars
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 02-17-2019, 02:48 PM
RussL30 RussL30 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jackson MS
Posts: 1,573
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmz76 View Post
I don't know the specific songs you are reference, but I suspect that they are trying to follow in the footsteps of Guthrie, Dylan and Springsteen in reflecting more liberal sentiments and trying to be a voice "for the people". It's a big part of the American Folk Singer-Songwriter tradition. If your views are on the other side of the fence and you like them otherwise, I guess it can be annoying.

Choosing to go there as a Songwriter is going to divide the audience, when I was younger I was drawn to artist who had something political to say but these days I'm leaning more in line with you in that I think it can become pretentious really quick. Even if I agree with this perspective. It takes a very skilled writer to understand this and to tread the line. I think it's best achieved when the Songwriter doesn't preach in their lyrics but instead tells stories through their songs from the perspective of someone who might be feeling held down by the system. Make me feel the impact of whatever your protest is and then I can appreciate it. Springsteen often crosses the line in public statements, but as a songwriter he's a a master at this approach. I think he does it tactfully as the master craftsman that he is. I think Isbell has done it successful a few times as well, Dress Blues is a good example.

I understand the history of the protest song and guys like Woody and Arlo Guthrie, Phil Ochs etc and the folk movement back in the 60’s. However, I listen to music to get away from real world crap and politics and things like that. I don’t care if it’s Ted Nugent or Springsteen or anybody in between, I don’t care how you believe politically so don’t talk down to me or tell me how I should think. Hopefully I’m not violating forum rules, but politics is down there on my list of things that are important and I believe people on both sides take it too serious and too far, and I hate it when musicians get too much into it. I also hate it when wealthy musicians like Springsteen or Gary Clark whine about being oppressed. Now a poor guy or gal from the Mississippi Delta, Kentucky coal mine country or Appalachia sings about things being tough, I believe it and to get this thread back on topic, to me those musicians from poor rural parts of America singing about life is the root of country music and blues and bluegrass too.
__________________
Taylor- DN8, GS Mini
Gibson - Gospel Reissue, LG2 American Eagle
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 02-17-2019, 03:35 PM
muscmp muscmp is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: socal
Posts: 8,128
Default

county(as one person called it) died a long time ago. now it isn't music, it is selling vodka or wine or some other marketing.

the only thing i still like about some supposed country songs is the twin guitarists with one playing a les paul and the other playing a tele. of course, that is partially why it is more rock/pop than country today.

play music!
__________________

2014 Martin 00015M
2009 Martin 0015M
2008 Martin HD28
2007 Martin 000-18GE
2006 Taylor 712
2006 Fender Parlor GDP100
1978 Fender F65
1968 Gibson B25-12N
Various Electrics
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 02-17-2019, 03:46 PM
menhir menhir is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 822
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrb715 View Post
The best songs have a kind of wonderful compassion that tell a story and the melody carries the song along with the lyrics.
I'll admit to formerly having a patrician attitude about country music. I wasn't a full fledged snob mind you but, you know, the sobby lyrics, twangy playing, and they call violins fiddles f'r crying out loud. That kind of stuff.
I used to have fun arguments about it with my late Stetson-wearing cowboy-booted Uncle about it.

But...

Good music is where you find it. Not all country is good, of course. The same can be said for everything other genre, even classical. I'm betting the wastebaskets in Vienna back in Mozart's day were full of rightfully discarded music, too.

While hardly being a country music person myself, I've come to have a real appreciation and a lot more respect for it over the years. If I should ever see my Uncle again, I plan to tell him I was wrong. :-)

I've actually become a fan of Willie Nelson, too. It has nothing to do with his guitar...I just really like the way he turns a tune. When I was young my sister and I were taken to the Grand Ole Oprey when it came through Pittsburgh. I still remember it. We bought the album. I still have it. It's out of print and I'll be converting it to a digital copy when I get the time.
I guess it took a while for me to realize that a great musical experience was had by all. Slow learner, I am.

Hardly a saint, I've directed that patrician attitude towards rap and hip-hop. So far, I think it'll safely stay there. (But I do not look down on others who have other tastes...That'll have to be my redeeming quality.)

Getting back to the original post, I once heard of a person who decided to deconstruct every single Beatles song, true story, so he could write one, too.

I don't think it worked out.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 02-17-2019, 04:50 PM
Steadfastly Steadfastly is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Minto, NB
Posts: 3,609
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleJesse View Post
I love Sturgill. Another person who cracked the country songwriting code was Daniel Romano who may have just been doing it as performance art but in the process wrote some killer songs.

Sturgill Simpson is more folk than country. Daniel Romano is definitely pure country and in that clip he uses my favourite instrument, the pedal steel guitar.
__________________
Mr. Big Hands Playing Wide Neck Guitars
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 02-17-2019, 07:31 PM
Willie Voltaire Willie Voltaire is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 5,167
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steadfastly View Post
Sturgill Simpson is more folk than country. Daniel Romano is definitely pure country and in that clip he uses my favourite instrument, the pedal steel guitar.
You don't get any more country than the pedal steel of Robby Turner. He's all over Sturgill Simpson's first album:

__________________
Gibson LG2, Waterloo WL12, Guild D30, National M2, Gretsch Jim Dandy, Fouke Industrial Indy-8 lap steel
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 02-17-2019, 09:06 PM
Hoyt Hoyt is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 430
Default

As long as it expresses sentiments like songs of Steve Earle or Woody Guthrie, I love “country” — really folk — music. Anything else, ain’t for me. My initiation was the Byrds and Flying Burrito Brothers.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 02-18-2019, 06:22 PM
Rmz76 Rmz76 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,923
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoyt View Post
As long as it expresses sentiments like songs of Steve Earle or Woody Guthrie, I love “country” — really folk — music. Anything else, ain’t for me. My initiation was the Byrds and Flying Burrito Brothers.
Hayes Carll just released a great album this past Friday that you may enjoy. Here's one of the songs from it.
__________________
Wayne


J-45 song of the day archive
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis..._Zmxz51NAwG1UJ

My music
https://soundcloud.com/waynedeats76
https://www.facebook.com/waynedeatsmusic

My guitars
Gibson, Martin, Blueridge, Alvarez, Takamine
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 02-18-2019, 06:40 PM
Davis Webb Davis Webb is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,133
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrb715 View Post
Couldn't disagree more. I think you're not only flat out wrong, but I wonder what kind of music you think is worth listening to. 90% of what I play and sing is country music. Sure, most of what you hear on the radio isn't great, but that's just the way art usually works: it's true of movies, plays and especially of music. How much of pop is really interesting? How much of hip-hop, rap? How much of classical? I've spent a lifetime as an artist: a singer, actor, director--and that's just the way it is. But good country music is genuinely interesting and moving--and it's not just the so called edgy stuff of Sturgill Simpson or any of the peripheral artists. The best songs have a kind of wonderful compession that tell a story and the melody carries the song along with the lyrics. Much of Vince Gill's songs, Miranda Lambert's The House that Built Me or Tin Man, Kasey Musgrave's Space Cowboy, a whole bunch of Brooks and Dunn's material including Believe or It's Getting Better All the Time, Keith Urban's songs including Blue Aint Your Color, Sugarland's entire catalogue including the grammy winning Stay, more recently Kip Moore's Come Home With You, Brett Eldredge's One Mississippi or Haven't Met You, Lee Brice's Rumor or Songs in the Kitchen--and I can, and should, keep going on and on. You might not like them, but they are all interesting musically (often borrowing elements of gospel, blues or soul) and are lyrically moving, at least to me. While it is a sort of a cliche, they tell stories that take you for a ride that is much more interesting to me than something like "Uptown Funk" (though I really like Uptown Funk.)

I was pulled into country by Merle Haggard and Dolly Parton, but it's simple ignorance (in the strictest definition: lack of knowledge, understanding or education) that assumes these (along with the usual sentimental favorites of Hank Williams, Sr. Lefty Frizell, George Jones, Tammy Wynette, Loretta Lynn, Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings etc) were the only real country artists, and the only ones worth listening to. I love them all--well, not really wild about Willie Nelson (a particular favorite on AGF, maybe because of his junky guitar)--but they weren't the last real country artists. There've been many extraordinary country artists since they played: have you ever heard the O'Kanes, Keith Whitley or Gus Hardin? (as well as many forgettable artists).

As with all music, you have to hunt for the stuff that really works. But there is in fact a bunch of great songs and great music from contemporary country artists with some of the--well probably the--finest guitar work on contemporary records.
This is such a good post that I had to bump it.
__________________
Larrivee, Gibson, Ovation, Strat, Tele
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=