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Old 02-14-2019, 02:37 PM
cap217 cap217 is online now
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Default Collings D2h vs Traditional

What am I really getting for this upcharge? I know the case now but assume both have the same case. The neck is wider and fatter, hide glue, but what else? Anything that really changes the sound and performance of the guitar? I’m leaning towards the tradition just because I like bigger necks and wider spacing but now I’m at a price point where I have endless options.

I currently have a j45tv that has a nice neck and a bourgeois om vintage. I’m looking for a dread but I also have time to make the right choice.

Also, can you compare these necks to my bourgeois? I feel like my bourgeois is a hard v but small. I can’t find actual specs on the neck size and shape.
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Old 02-14-2019, 03:31 PM
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The Traditional models have a slightly warmed up midrange, and are ever-so-slightly more bass-forward... so it's taking the Collings voice and turning it a little bit toward the Martin sound (just a little bit, though)

Generally speaking, the Traditionals are some of the best sounding Collings we've ever heard, right out of the box.



Chunkier than the normal Bourgeois carve, for sure, with a little more meat in the shoulder. Fills up the hand more and more as you approach the body.
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Old 02-14-2019, 04:16 PM
jrb715 jrb715 is offline
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On three occasions, I've auditioned Traditional and standard D2Hs side by side. I think AMW's description is accurate. Best to think of the Traditional as a slightly different, not necessarily better, sound than the original: warmer giving up a little midrange punch with dreads. But I also do think that they can be more inviting right out of the box: though I've found the standard dreads to warm up and relax a bit with time into pretty spectacular guitars, and variances in individual guitars make the better/worse comparison difficult. When I purchased a Collings dread, the Traditionals I auditioned were better for me than all but one of the standards: which, however, is what I preferred and took home (a D2HA). So, I suppose I end up not preferring one over the other with dreadnoughts, though you will be getting a more substantial neck with the Traditional. In addition to the neck and the animal glue, I believe (not sure) the Traditional has a slightly thinner finish. The difference in price I assume primarily reflects the additional time in production for the Traditional.
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Old 02-14-2019, 08:16 PM
Manothemtns Manothemtns is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrb715 View Post
On three occasions, I've auditioned Traditional and standard D2Hs side by side. I think AMW's description is accurate. Best to think of the Traditional as a slightly different, not necessarily better, sound than the original: warmer giving up a little midrange punch with dreads. But I also do think that they can be more inviting right out of the box: though I've found the standard dreads to warm up and relax a bit with time into pretty spectacular guitars, and variances in individual guitars make the better/worse comparison difficult. When I purchased a Collings dread, the Traditionals I auditioned were better for me than all but one of the standards: which, however, is what I preferred and took home (a D2HA). So, I suppose I end up not preferring one over the other with dreadnoughts, though you will be getting a more substantial neck with the Traditional. In addition to the neck and the animal glue, I believe (not sure) the Traditional has a slightly thinner finish. The difference in price I assume primarily reflects the additional time in production for the Traditional.
Have you considered Furch? The attached pics are of the company's 2017 D-33SR model. MSRP is $2,999, MAP is $2,399. The price goes up for an Adi-top but still tops out far below either Bourgeois or Collings pricing. If you don't already know, the Furch facility and world HQ is located in the Czech Republic. While founded in the 80's and well known in Northern and Western Europe, Australia, and New Zealand, the company is taking its sweet time entering the US market, which is obviously vastly congested and complex. They made some inroads under the pseudonym Stonebridge (the rationale being quite simply that Ptr Furch believed at the time that "Stonebridge" had a more "American" flair). It was a mistake and the company now has just a few US distribution channels now flying the Furch flag and they're phasing out the purpose-built US market entry Stonebridge line. I have a 2016 Furch D-31SM which is truly a remarkable guitar, easily going head to head, if not besting, my 2012 Martin D-18. I believe their guitars can go head-to-head with both Collings and Bourgeois but I'm sure I'd have my share of doubting Thomases on that statement.

Let me know. I'd be curious to see if a.) You're aware of the company and, b.) Would be interested in hearing more.

You can obviously visit thier website and, if you do, the line nomenclature had been changed to colors vs acronym based model identification. I think their 'Red' line is where you'd find the guitar most closely resembling the D-33SR.

I'm only commenting because I've become a huge Furch fan and would like nothing more than to indoctrinate others...particularly high-end guitar lovers of companies like SCGC, Collings, and Bourgeois. You'd certainly save roughly 40% for your trouble...which is predominantly geared toward finding one without taking the dive into an online, sight unseen sale.

Lemme know what you think.
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Old 02-15-2019, 04:44 AM
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Biggest thing for me was the neck profile.

I had a D2H, but the modified V neck and narrower nut width caused me some problems.

Got my hands on a D2H-T, and it's been all smiles. I love that big chunky neck, and the wider nut and increased string spacing provide plenty of room for my fingers.

Sounds great as well.

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Old 02-15-2019, 05:55 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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I am assuming that as Martin introduced the "Authentic" series to meet the challenge of Collings stock offerings, then Collings responded with their T series.

There are no quality issues with the Collings standard series, and they are certainly no issues with their standard versions as far as I'm concerns, although the neck profiles have tended to get thicker over the last twenty years.

According to their website the T series has an even lighter (and so more delicate) finish , "animal" protein (hide? fish?) glues, and probably a lighter bracing/strutting build, which makes them even responsive and even more fragile.
The extra cost of the Martin Authentic series has been said to be at least partially due to higher anticipated warranty claims and it might also be the reason that the T series cost more, but they are competing both on quality and price points.
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Old 02-15-2019, 07:22 AM
cap217 cap217 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
I am assuming that as Martin introduced the "Authentic" series to meet the challenge of Collings stock offerings, then Collings responded with their T series.

There are no quality issues with the Collings standard series, and they are certainly no issues with their standard versions as far as I'm concerns, although the neck profiles have tended to get thicker over the last twenty years.

According to their website the T series has an even lighter (and so more delicate) finish , "animal" protein (hide? fish?) glues, and probably a lighter bracing/strutting build, which makes them even responsive and even more fragile.
The extra cost of the Martin Authentic series has been said to be at least partially due to higher anticipated warranty claims and it might also be the reason that the T series cost more, but they are competing both on quality and price points.

What would make warranty claims go up on the Collings? I understand the Martin. The bridge bracing would be the only thing I could think of.
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Old 02-15-2019, 11:51 AM
tippy5 tippy5 is offline
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Collings has a large fretboard radius change from the nut to the sound hole.
I had a great D2H and enjoyed its bright, but still lush, low mids. Martin like in a way. Long scale, nice frets, 2 3/16" saddle spacing. Really nice medium neck thickness - feel.

I think you would enjoy its decidedly different tone, and feel, from your J 45TV (I have one). Collings D2H seems more of a strummer with sweet blended low mids and lows.
Unless you rip into it with higher action and medium ga. strings.
The Gibson has a beguiling drier and clearer Americana-type lows.

Last edited by tippy5; 02-15-2019 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 02-15-2019, 12:07 PM
AndrewG AndrewG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cap217 View Post
What would make warranty claims go up on the Collings? I understand the Martin. The bridge bracing would be the only thing I could think of.
Lightness of build I expect. There a fine line between implosion and bracing strong enough but light enough to ensure maximum resonance! As Silly Moustache says Chris Martin is on record as saying that the extra cost of the Authentic is to defray anticipated warranty claims on instruments trying to tie themselves into a pretzel. I wonder if any actually did need premature warranty attention. Lovely guitars in any event.
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Old 02-15-2019, 06:05 PM
pandaroo pandaroo is offline
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I owned a D2H and D2HT at the same time at one point. As you can see from my signature, you know which one i have let go. I am a petite 5'6" with small hands and the chunky neck of the D2HT is just as comfortable for me.

The combination of the protein glue, thinner finish, the revoiced top, meatier neck, lighter build, plus I opted for a baked top, all these really contributed to the tone, warmer, more responsive, deeper bass, louder, more resonant. To me is like a D2H on steroids with a boost in midrange and hint of Martin in it.
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:02 PM
Zissou Intern Zissou Intern is offline
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Its interesting that the Collings Vintage neck is deeper and fuller than the Traditional neck profile. The Vintage Now neck is also slightly bigger at the 1st fret, but the Traditional neck is deeper and more of a V by the time it gets to the 9th fret. Id like to tryout a D1T.
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Old 02-16-2019, 03:18 PM
zoopeda zoopeda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewG View Post
Lightness of build I expect. There a fine line between implosion and bracing strong enough but light enough to ensure maximum resonance! As Silly Moustache says Chris Martin is on record as saying that the extra cost of the Authentic is to defray anticipated warranty claims on instruments trying to tie themselves into a pretzel. I wonder if any actually did need premature warranty attention. Lovely guitars in any event.
Totally unsubstantiated. Show me where Chris Martin says Authentics are going to require more warranty work.

Those lightly braced 30s builds got wrecked when players started using heavy gauge strings. That's the only reason they moved the bracing back and beefed them up in the 40s. I don't know anyone using heavy gauge strings on any guitar these days, let alone an Authentic.
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:45 AM
Manothemtns Manothemtns is offline
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I'd posted an alternative...Furch, several days ago. I did it because, while the company isn't a household name, it builds fine guitars at roughly 2/3 the price of any Collings. Thought you might be interested in saving a grand or more. Collings is right down the road from where I live and has nothing on Furch. A response would have been nice.
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:41 PM
Fresh1985 Fresh1985 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manothemtns View Post
I'd posted an alternative...Furch, several days ago. I did it because, while the company isn't a household name, it builds fine guitars at roughly 2/3 the price of any Collings. Thought you might be interested in saving a grand or more. Collings is right down the road from where I live and has nothing on Furch. A response would have been nice.
Furch are fantastic and the best value in any high instrument ive seen. Ive never played a collings but my furch OM which cost about a third of what my martin did, is better in regards fit/finish and overall quality. I therefore would not be in the least bit suprised if furch match collings in this regard. Unfortunately many believe american made means 'best' and thats fine but in truth they are missing out.

I live in hope that more people will come to appreciate just how fantastic furch guitars are.

That dread looks stunning btw.
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Old 02-17-2019, 02:55 PM
Manothemtns Manothemtns is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh1985 View Post
Furch are fantastic and the best value in any high instrument ive seen. Ive never played a collings but my furch OM which cost about a third of what my martin did, is better in regards fit/finish and overall quality. I therefore would not be in the least bit suprised if furch match collings in this regard. Unfortunately many believe american made means 'best' and thats fine but in truth they are missing out.

I live in hope that more people will come to appreciate just how fantastic furch guitars are.

That dread looks stunning btw.
Thanks for responding! Glad to hear you're more than a little aware of Furch. I agree that they're the best value in the higher-end market today.
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