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  #1  
Old 02-08-2019, 01:07 PM
bcopeland8900 bcopeland8900 is offline
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Default Top thickness between Emerald and Rainsong

How does the Emerald top compare to the various Rainsong tops? Unidirectional, black ice, etc.

I am especially curious about the thickness because of the wood veneer and would think the following formula would come into play:

Thin = more vibration = more sustain

I really wish I could get my hands on an emerald X10 or other before taking the plunge... (Dallas TX area if anyone local)

-B
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Old 02-08-2019, 01:24 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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CF tops are a sandwich of CF/Spacer/CF in the case of a braceless flat top RainSong. A RainSong top has three different thicknesses (the no spacer sound hole edge and top edge are very thin, bulk of the top which has a spacer, and the thicker bridge plate). The Emeralds I owned had radiused tops and if there was a significant spacer, it was not obvious to me. The CAs I've owned also appeared to have little to no spacer in their not radiused flat braced tops. It is more complex than thickness.

The visible layer of CF in a RainSong has the standard series twill underneath it (spacer under that and the inside CF layers beneath the spacer). It is possible that the top layer is more about cosmetics.

You need to play them.
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Old 02-09-2019, 09:20 AM
mountainmaster mountainmaster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcopeland8900 View Post
Thin = more vibration = more sustain
That is what I always believed to be true. Of course with wood tops: thin = more delicate.

One would expect that CF gives builders an opportunity to make their tops very thin, but somehow that has not happened. Although most of them managed to drop the bracing.
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Old 02-09-2019, 09:27 AM
EvanB EvanB is offline
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Mountainmaster;

I have also wondered why CF has not resulted in thinner tops. Eliminating bracing may require thicker tops. I've also wondered if tone posts, as in violins, would enable a thinner, more sensitive top??
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Old 02-09-2019, 10:08 AM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
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I think you have to reach not only a happy, but a functional medium. Carbon fiber, in its thinnest form, can be brittle. I think a bit of additional thickness in the top not only makes it tougher, but also warmer. Seems to me that the different manufacturers have each found their own way to give them their signature tones. I like that we have choices in CF, just like the wood guitarists have their options.
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Old 02-09-2019, 02:44 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainmaster View Post
That is what I always believed to be true. Of course with wood tops: thin = more delicate.

One would expect that CF gives builders an opportunity to make their tops very thin, but somehow that has not happened. Although most of them managed to drop the bracing.
Thin is not the design goal of any musical instrument component. Low mass, appropriate stiffness, and acceptable strength are the goals. That is not achieved by thinning obsessively. CF guitars have more in common with wood guitars that have double tops (typically separated by Nomex).

RainSong tops are flat with a thick spacer. CA tops are flat with a thin spacer and bracing. Emerald tops are radiused with a thin spacer.
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RainSong CH-PA1100NS, Mi-Si Trio (Baggs Element), Elixir PB 10s, TKL 8975 Case & Access 3/4 Stage 1 gig bag, set up to cover electric guitar riffs
RainSong CO-PA1100NS, Schatten Passive HFN into Boss GE-7, Elixir 80/20 Polyweb 12s, TKL 8975 Case
One QSC CP8 (21 lbs) high/behind & Yamaha MG10XU mixer, Fishman Rare Earth Humbucker backup in gig bag

www.justsoduo.com
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  #7  
Old 02-09-2019, 03:49 PM
MiG50 MiG50 is offline
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I'm fairly certain that the CF tops are engineered to be as thin as possible, while still having the strength to withstand the pull of the strings. I'm no expert, but I expect the forces exerted on the soundboard of six steel strings tuned to pitch are pretty extreme. So it's always going to be a delicate balance of forces.

I know that Rainsong makes a special thin top just for their nylon string model, and I expect the other guys do as well. This can be accomplished because the nylon strings exert a much smaller force than the steel strings do. This is also why CF makes such great 12-string guitars, as the tops can be built to sustain that much tension without sacrificing too much thinness.
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