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  #61  
Old 01-17-2019, 10:22 AM
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
You can't accurately state that as a general rule. You might get away with it in a big room but it doesn't look like OP's room is all that large. As the room gets smaller, the problem of bass build up in the corners will become more prevalent on recordings done in that room.
That's true though it's is relative to the instruments being recorded.

Here is the frequency content of a guitar strum in my recording space, and that is even with some room panels.


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  #62  
Old 01-17-2019, 01:45 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
That's true though it's is relative to the instruments being recorded.
True, but since the OP was setting up to record guitar, my comments were limited to guitar. I probably should have said that. I'd imagine instruments with a higher frequency floor would have less of an issue.

I know first hand the difficulties of recording in a small room ...and my room is treated to try to minimize the bad stuff. But even then it's a struggle. When walls are too close together, weird things happen and most them aren't good. I'm so looking forward to relocating.
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  #63  
Old 01-17-2019, 03:41 PM
Standicz Standicz is offline
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few thoughts and things I found around the internet when I was dealing with my band's rehersal room, which has walls of thick stone and bricks, it was a nightmare when it was empty.

I see you choose Rockwool, great choice for the panels.

Here are some quick tips on acoustic pressure, as you can see on the picture, the corners have most of it. Because the sound waves bounce off the walls back and forth where the walls meet, creating unwanted frequencies. So you usually need to put some stuff in the corners. I'd seen it even in studio control rooms, unpacked roll of rockwool just standing in the corner. But I think your panels will suffice. Now worst corners are where 3 lines meet, such as two walls + floor or ceiling but the other corners matter also, eg. the corner between the wall and the floor. In your case, you probably only need to disrupt the most problematic areas.





You will probably come up with a better placement on the spot, but that's the general idea. By the way, is that carpet on the floor? I guess it is. Oh and of course, you'd probably need to do this with the other corners and walls, too...
Hope this helps, Standa.
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Last edited by Standicz; 01-17-2019 at 03:53 PM.
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  #64  
Old 01-17-2019, 03:49 PM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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Originally Posted by Standicz View Post
I'd seen it even in studio control rooms, unpacked roll of rockwool just standing in the corner. But I think your panels will suffice.
I've done it a couple times using rolls of pink insulation to make a guerrilla edit/mix room out of raw office space. You can leave the outer wrapper on, doesn't seem to make a difference. And return them to Home Depot when you're done.
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  #65  
Old 01-17-2019, 04:27 PM
JakeStone JakeStone is offline
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Op here.. thanks for your informative post. My panels are portable which will allow me to try variety of placements .. I like what you suggest for the left corner... Yes the floor is carpet .. which I know is not ideal.
Thanks again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Standicz View Post
few thoughts and things I found around the internet when I was dealing with my band's rehersal room, which has walls of thick stone and bricks, it was a nightmare when it was empty.

I see you choose Rockwool, great choice for the panels.

Here are some quick tips on acoustic pressure, as you can see on the picture, the corners have most of it. Because the sound waves bounce off the walls back and forth where the walls meet, creating unwanted frequencies. So you usually need to put some stuff in the corners. I'd seen it even in studio control rooms, unpacked roll of rockwool just standing in the corner. But I think your panels will suffice. Now worst corners are where 3 lines meet, such as two walls + floor or ceiling but the other corners matter also, eg. the corner between the wall and the floor. In your case, you probably only need to disrupt the most problematic areas.





You will probably come up with a better placement on the spot, but that's the general idea. By the way, is that carpet on the floor? I guess it is. Oh and of course, you'd probably need to do this with the other corners and walls, too...
Hope this helps, Standa.
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  #66  
Old 01-17-2019, 05:04 PM
Standicz Standicz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I've done it a couple times using rolls of pink insulation to make a guerrilla edit/mix room out of raw office space. You can leave the outer wrapper on, doesn't seem to make a difference. And return them to Home Depot when you're done.

of course that foil makes no difference, the sound just slips through. Even glass creates little reflection, it flexes and transfers the energy to kinetic. The same goes for drywall, which usually has rockwool beneath..so JakeStone probably does not need to treat the ceiling, unless I'm mistaken.

It really matters what the walls are made of and how thick they are. When the soundwave hits solid wall of brick, stone or concrete, it can't transfer into anything so it bounces off untill it's energy is depleted and it turns into heat completely. Higher frequencies bounce off more easily while low frequencies have more pressure and shake the whole house...it's like hitting the wall with a tenis ball vs a bulldozer.


As for absorbtion, the sound wave gets truly absorbed by a dense and porous material thick 1/4 of the wave's lenght. That is the wave doesn't slip through if the whole height of it disappears in the material.

That means to trully absorb 27,4 foot long low E on a bass guitar, you would need 7 foot of rockwool!
440Hz A is still 27 inches..

So when treating a room, you are really going for ballance.

By the way carpet is great, much better than most other options!

also leave some space between the panel and the wall so the wave gets further absorbed when it bounces off the wall. That space should be as wide as the panel is. It kind of doubles the panel thickness.

Oh and early reflections are the root of most acoustic evil, treat the frist reflections first, just imagine where the waves hit as they leave your instrument and those are the spots you have to address first.. if you'd put mirrors there, those in which you could see yourself are the first reflection areas.
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Last edited by Standicz; 01-17-2019 at 05:40 PM.
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  #67  
Old 01-17-2019, 05:21 PM
JakeStone JakeStone is offline
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Thanks again for the additional comments on the subject.

Good stuff!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Standicz View Post
of course that foil makes no difference, the sound just slips through. Even glass creates little reflection, it flexes and transfers the energy to kinetic. The same goes for drywall, which usually has rockwool beneath..so JakeStone probably does not need to treat the ceiling, unless I'm mistaken.

It really matters what the walls are made of and how thick they are. When the soundwave hits solid wall of brick, stone or concrete, it can't transfer into anything so it bounces off untill it's energy is depleted and it turns into heat completely. Higher frequencies bounce off more easily while low frequencies have more pressure and shake the whole house...it's like hitting the wall with a tenis ball vs a bulldozer.


As for absorbtion, the sound wave gets truly absorbed by a material thick 1/4 of the wave's lenght. That is the wave doesn't slip through if the whole height of it disappears in the material.

That means to trully absorb 27,4 foot long low E on a bass guitar, you would need 7 foot of rockwool!
440Hz A is still 27 inches..

So when treating a room, you are really going for ballance.

By the way carpet is great, much better than most other options!

also leave some space between the panel and the wall so the wave gets further absorbed when it bounces off the wall. That space should be as wide as the panel is. It kind of doubles the panel thickness.

Oh and early reflections are the root of most acoustic evil, treat the frist reflections first, just imagine where the waves hit right in front of you as they leave your instrument and those are the spots you have to address first..
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  #68  
Old 01-17-2019, 05:44 PM
rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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Sound absorption of various materials has been measured. For example look at
https://soundproofyourhome.com/absor...ficient-chart/

Glass not effective, but quite bad actually.

Carpet does not do much except at higher frequencies (which could be useful actually regarding harshness).


Below are some absorption charts from ATS Acoustics

For explanation of coefficients >1 read: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/Absorpt...oesserEins.pdf

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Last edited by rick-slo; 01-17-2019 at 10:20 PM.
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  #69  
Old 01-18-2019, 06:50 AM
JakeStone JakeStone is offline
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Originally Posted by Standicz View Post



You will probably come up with a better placement on the spot, but that's the general idea. By the way, is that carpet on the floor? I guess it is. Oh and of course, you'd probably need to do this with the other corners and walls, too...
Hope this helps, Standa.



I decided to arrange things similar to the graphic you provided.
The good things is.. With help of thread and all my test recordings.. I am beginning to learn the room and equipment better. I am currently using 1 LDC mic and recording guitar and vocals together.

Here's an example of latest recording.


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  #70  
Old 01-18-2019, 07:30 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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If I didn't know otherwise, I could easily believe that was done in a 500-seat auditorium. And it's nice to listen to (and I really like your singing).
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  #71  
Old 01-18-2019, 07:38 AM
JakeStone JakeStone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
If I didn't know otherwise, I could easily believe that was done in a 500-seat auditorium. And it's nice to listen to (and I really like your singing).
Thanks so much Brent .. I really appreciate your reply. Glad you liked it.
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  #72  
Old 01-19-2019, 12:53 PM
Standicz Standicz is offline
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It sounds really great!

To find out reflections, I often walk the place clapping my hands, listening closely. I start with the center of the room, walk around and then follow the walls, clapping here and there, head turned sideways, listening with one ear for reflections. I must look nuts to a bystander.

I read of more sophisticated ways to do this, but my way serves the purpose well..
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Last edited by Standicz; 01-19-2019 at 04:05 PM.
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  #73  
Old 01-19-2019, 02:01 PM
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gwlee7 gwlee7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeStone View Post

Here's an example of latest recording. [/B]

This is really quite good!!
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  #74  
Old 01-19-2019, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeStone View Post

I decided to arrange things similar to the graphic you provided.
The good things is.. With help of thread and all my test recordings.. I am beginning to learn the room and equipment better. I am currently using 1 LDC mic and recording guitar and vocals together.

Here's an example of latest recording.


Things are shaping up nicely sounds quite good, well done
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  #75  
Old 01-19-2019, 03:23 PM
JakeStone JakeStone is offline
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Originally Posted by gwlee7 View Post
This is really quite good!!
Thanks gwlee .. I really appreciate the reply !
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