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  #1  
Old 02-09-2019, 03:44 PM
jseth jseth is offline
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Cool Mt Old FRAP P.U. Came Back To Me!

Back in the 70's, I used a FRAP pickup on my acoustic on stage... jumped over to USTs when they came out, and I must have loaned that FRAP to a friend sometime in the early 80's...

Well, lo and behold! Received a package the other day that had not only my old FRAP pickup (w/ red preamplifier), but also an entire other FRAP unit called the "iT".

The iT has the pickup portion hardwired into a smallish aluminum box which serves as the preamp.

Both seem to be in good shape; my old one has a lot of gunk on the pickup's cable (from the old days when everyone smoked in every bar!), but I can clean that off... the iT has a slight breaching of the connecting cable, about 12" from the pickup transducer, but I do not believe that it is shorting out the cable.

Does anyone know where I can get more information on the original FRAP pickups? I know that Trance Audio Amulets "kind of" came from that design, and I know that Tedidy Randazzo used to work for FRAP. What I'm hoping for is more spec-oriented information, as well as install info.

Trying to decide what to do with these units, or if they'd be worth installing in one of my acoustic guitars...

Any one with any good ideas?
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and some fly...,
some fall...
and some don't fall at all..."


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Last edited by jseth; 02-15-2019 at 08:26 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-09-2019, 11:33 PM
Vancebo Vancebo is offline
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I will direct Teddy over to this thread and he may have a lot to say about it.
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  #3  
Old 02-10-2019, 12:14 AM
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dazzoman dazzoman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jseth View Post
Back in the 70's, I used a FRAP pickup on my acoustic on stage... jumped over to USTs when they came out, and I must have loaned that FRAP to a friend sometime in the early 80's...

Well, lo and behold! Received a package the other day that had not only my old FRAP pickup (w/ red preamplifier), but also an entire other FRAP unit called the "iT".

The iT has the pickup portion hardwired into a smallish aluminum box which serves as the preamp.

Both seem to be in good shape; my old one has a lot of gunk on the pickup's cable (from the old days when everyone smoked in every bar!), but I can clean that off... the iT has a slight breaching of the connecting cable, about 12" from the pickup transducer, but I do not believe that it is shorting out the cable.

Does anyone know where I can get more information on the original FRAP pickups? I know that Trance Audio Amulets "kind of" came from that design, and I know that Tedidy Randazzo used to work for FRAP. What I'm hoping for is more spec-oriented information, as well as install info.

Trying to decide what to do with these units, or if they'd be worth installing in one of my acoustic guitars...

Any one with any good ideas?
One idea is use a Dazzo instead : Its , use , sound quality ( of which Frap was best in its day ) low feedback ,ease of installation and difference in weight on a guitar top and more reasons ....
We guarantee all the above .
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Last edited by dazzoman; 02-10-2019 at 12:15 AM. Reason: misspell
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:25 PM
jseth jseth is offline
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Thanks to both Vance and Teddy for their responses... I am looking for information on how to best make use of these two FRAP pickups, however; not looking to install something else at this time.

Anyone else have any good ideas for me?
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"The ocean whispers through the cottonwood trees;
Autumn has come and rustled all of the leaves,
and some fly...,
some fall...
and some don't fall at all..."


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  #5  
Old 02-12-2019, 06:18 PM
jseth jseth is offline
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Anyone?

Come on... there must be more old-timers here that remember some of this stuff!
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"The ocean whispers through the cottonwood trees;
Autumn has come and rustled all of the leaves,
and some fly...,
some fall...
and some don't fall at all..."


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  #6  
Old 02-13-2019, 05:02 AM
Howard Emerson Howard Emerson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jseth View Post
Back in the 70's, I used a FRAP pickup on my acoustic on stage... jumped over to USTs when they came out, and I must have loaned that FRAP to a friend sometime in the early 80's...

Well, lo and behold! Received a package the other day that had not only my old FRAP pickup (w/ red preamplifier), but also an entire other FRAP unit called the "iT".

The iT has the pickup portion hardwired into a smallish aluminum box which serves as the preamp.

Both seem to be in good shape; my old one has a lot of gunk on the pickup's cable (from the old days when everyone smoked in every bar!), but I can clean that off... the iT has a slight breaching of the connecting cable, about 12" from the pickup transducer, but I do not believe that it is shorting out the cable.

Does anyone know where I can get more information on the original FRAP pickups? I know that Trance Audio Amulets "kind of" came from that design, and I know that Tedidy Randazzo used to work for FRAP. What I'm hoping for is more spec-oriented information, as well as install info.

Trying to decide what to do with these units, or if they'd be worth installing in one of my acoustic guitars...

Any one with any good ideas?
Hi JS,
How about going to the inception?

Perhaps you can glean some insight from the patent information. It's a long read....

https://patents.google.com/patent/US...arus%2c+Arnold

HE
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Old 02-13-2019, 11:10 AM
jseth jseth is offline
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Thanks, Howard... had not thought of going that route... I'll check it out later and see if there's anything useful for my needs.

Appreciate it...
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"The ocean whispers through the cottonwood trees;
Autumn has come and rustled all of the leaves,
and some fly...,
some fall...
and some don't fall at all..."


(J.S.Sherman)
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  #8  
Old 02-15-2019, 01:42 PM
throbert throbert is offline
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Larry Cragg, Neil Young's tech might be helpful. I believe he still uses the system in his some of his instruments.
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Old 02-15-2019, 02:34 PM
Tone Gopher Tone Gopher is offline
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The F.R.A.P. GP-100 installed in my Gurian Jumbo Herringbone is still going strong after 40 years. Sounds great.
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Old 02-15-2019, 03:59 PM
svea svea is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by throbert View Post
Larry Cragg, Neil Young's tech might be helpful. I believe he still uses the system in his some of his instruments.
I pulled a working FRAP system out of a 70's D-28 recently, complete with the red preamp. While doing my own research on it, the best resource I noted was Larry Cragg. Larry does a special stereo install for Neil, so maybe he could help with that second transducer you got. If you need another FRAP, go ahead and message me.

Svea
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Old 02-15-2019, 08:26 PM
jseth jseth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tone Gopher View Post
The F.R.A.P. GP-100 installed in my Gurian Jumbo Herringbone is still going strong after 40 years. Sounds great.
Good to know! How is it installed? I'm assuming it's inside the body of the guitar, but where? Do you know how it's oriented? What do you use for a pre-amp, or do you need one at all? What type of amplification are you using (amp/PA?)... Do you perform often?

I would really appreciate your answers to these questions; they may help me to install one (or both!) in my acoustics. I already have decent/good pickup systems in both my Angus 6 and 12 string acoustics, but I'd love to yank out that UST and the battery box and wires!

I'd only do it if the FRAP's would either eclipse or come close to the sound of the Anthem...
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"The ocean whispers through the cottonwood trees;
Autumn has come and rustled all of the leaves,
and some fly...,
some fall...
and some don't fall at all..."


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  #12  
Old 02-17-2019, 05:20 PM
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dazzoman dazzoman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jseth View Post
Good to know! How is it installed? I'm assuming it's inside the body of the guitar, but where? Do you know how it's oriented? What do you use for a pre-amp, or do you need one at all? What type of amplification are you using (amp/PA?)... Do you perform often?

I would really appreciate your answers to these questions; they may help me to install one (or both!) in my acoustics. I already have decent/good pickup systems in both my Angus 6 and 12 string acoustics, but I'd love to yank out that UST and the battery box and wires!

I'd only do it if the FRAP's would either eclipse or come close to the sound of the Anthem...
Jseth ,

You will need a Frap or Transaudio preamp and make sure the cord length is as short as possible like within 7 feet (coming out of guitar ) or it loses capacitence unless you get the new Trans internal preamp they are offering now .
Placement by the Frap Co (circa 1980) was to remove all strings save low E , hold one Frap out along the X brace on the bridge plate near high E with tail wire facing end block .
You would drag it along the X brace , passing near high E , back and forth until you got the loudest signal while plucking E .
Repeat with his special glue or use what I use now for Dazzos which is much easier to deal with - Loctite 6 min epoxy gel . It will hold the pickup on hence it is so gooey and sticky like tree sap .
This will enable you to hear and check and slide back and forth until its the loudest spot while its wet ( 4 minuet window until it sets up )
Frap used a 24 hour cure glue that was an RTV type and you had to leave the guitar face down over night and pray it doesnt move a half a centameter or it changes the sound drasticly.
I was told by Leo Kottke recently that Michael Hedges put the Frap in back of G , B , E string on the bridge plate but I have never tried it .
Here is a pic of Leo's index finger showing me just that ( with his permission ) ...oops I have to post the pic somewhere els here , I don't see a paper clip button ...
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Last edited by dazzoman; 02-17-2019 at 07:43 PM. Reason: goofed
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  #13  
Old 02-17-2019, 07:45 PM
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Here is the picture of the Frap placement shown by Leo K that he said Michael Hedges placed the Frap on his Martin .
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1069.jpg (30.2 KB, 45 views)
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:52 PM
jseth jseth is offline
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Teddy - Thank you SO much for all the information! I really appreciate it. Sounds a little scary for a "non-tech" type of guy, but at least I know several locations for an install.

I have my old red FRAP preamp that came with the Model T... and the other FRAP is actually attached to a 2"x3"x4" aluminum case that holds 2 9v batteries - I'm assuming that it is the preamp for the iT...

I might have to give these a go...
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"The ocean whispers through the cottonwood trees;
Autumn has come and rustled all of the leaves,
and some fly...,
some fall...
and some don't fall at all..."


(J.S.Sherman)
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  #15  
Old 02-22-2019, 12:45 AM
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dazzoman dazzoman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jseth View Post
Teddy - Thank you SO much for all the information! I really appreciate it. Sounds a little scary for a "non-tech" type of guy, but at least I know several locations for an install.

I have my old red FRAP preamp that came with the Model T... and the other FRAP is actually attached to a 2"x3"x4" aluminum case that holds 2 9v batteries - I'm assuming that it is the preamp for the iT...

I might have to give these a go...
You welcome ! The "IT" was a single dimentional Frap and wasnt their favorite product , had problems .I have one of those somewhere . IT has its own built in , in line like battery preamp ....
The red pre was their garden variety preamp and will do the job well .
I would attach that red pre on my guitar strap with a short pig tail wire for short distance for best sound, worked great , had Vol control right there .
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