SoloAmp/BagAmp comparison

[Renburke]

This reply is mostly along the lines of the original post.

I found trying to use the SoloAmp as a monitor while performing a bit painful (to my ears) and I cringed wanting to get far enough away from it. (the tweeter too loud???)

I don't have this problem with the Bagamp which makes a great monitor while performing (I had it in the corner of the room and I was standing about ~6 feet left and ~4 feet forward of it).

Finally, my suggestion to anyone who has a problem with the built-in Eq/echo/reverb/# of channels/inputs - buy yourself one of these or similar:
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...6&src=3SOSWXXA

Mark

[jennconducts]

NAMM at the BagAmp booth was fun. Jack seemed to be doing quite a bit of business; the booth, not in a great location, seemed to be getting good attention. I had lots of friends drop by, which was great. Nice of Mark Hanson, Doug Smith, and Ed Gerhard to stop in. I played off an on Thurs and Saturday, the most extended time being early on Thursday. Since Jack was a late add to the show, he spent most of the morning getting badges, etc, so I just sat and played, and chatted with some folks about the amp. Jack liked to use the singer/guitarist and his laptop to show off wider frequency capabilities of the amp. He wants to market the amp as a portable PA, not a solo guitar amp.

The sub sounded good when big bass info was present in the signal. The crossover is at 80 hrz, so for the solo play, there isn't a lot of info down there.

The sound at the show was really good, considering the atmosphere of NAMM: super noisy and no nearby reflective surfaces.

I bet that overall, the show was helpful to Jack. He's a nice gentleman. If you like the sound of your guitar, you'll like the BagAmp.

Jenn

[cotten]

Thanks, Jenn, for a good report. Sorry I couldn't have been there to hear you and chat with both you and Jack.

cotten

[FingerPlucked]

Originally Posted by jennconducts

The sub sounded good when big bass info was present in the signal. The crossover is at 80 hrz, so for the solo play, there isn't a lot of info down there.
Jenn

Uh oh. Maybe I need to rethink the sub thing.

Did you play through just the BA and then again with the sub, and if so, was there much difference?

[BoB/335]

It seems odd to me that the crossover point would be set that low. I thought the roll-off on the BA started way before that.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by BoB/335

It seems odd to me that the crossover point would be set that low. I thought the roll-off on the BA started way before that.

I'm curious as to what caused you to believe the bass roll-off occurred well above 80 Hz?

[jennconducts]

Originally Posted by FingerPlucked

Uh oh. Maybe I need to rethink the sub thing.

Did you play through just the BA and then again with the sub, and if so, was there much difference?

I didn't do a comparison with/without the sub one after the other; it wasn't Jack's job to do comparisons for me! BUT, the first hour that I played with without the sub, because Jack wasn't there and didn't have the sub hooked up, then later I played with it in the chain. In the terrible acoustical environment that is NAMM, I didn't notice a difference when in standard tuning, but I thought that I noticed a positve change when in dropped tunings.

I forgot to mention that a couple of times when the other person was playing or when the computer was providing the source material, I made a point of listening to the amp from various distances and from off-axis, including some listening from WAY off-axis. Sounded great, and this is really one of the positive aspects, IMO. This is one of my problems with other amps/PAs.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by Renburke

I found trying to use the SoloAmp as a monitor while performing a bit painful (to my ears) and I cringed wanting to get far enough away from it. (the tweeter too loud???)

I don't have this problem with the Bagamp which makes a great monitor while performing (I had it in the corner of the room and I was standing about ~6 feet left and ~4 feet forward of it).

This was my experience in performance-settings with the SoloAmp...and I had the tweeter turned way down.

The physics of this have been described at length at this thread here on the AGF (post # 27, 30, and then 31 on the following page):

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...=128706&page=2

[aboutjack]

Originally Posted by BuleriaChk

I would like to see Jack not only play into YouTube, but let us know his technical education (or was he just a shop guy in Fishman's company?)

So I would know that it isn't just "apparently" his field of expertise - that he has had some form of technical education and isn't just quoting techno-paper from other sources.

40-years of aggressively experimenting with small loudspeakers -- the last 20+ with the financial ability to hire some of the best engineers in the world to explore my silly concepts with me. Also learned to read and write somewhere along the way. Never worked for Fishman... but did some contract product development for them (as noted many other places)... nice guys as far as I saw. I disagree with the final implementation of their SA220 (formerly SoloAmp), but not so much with them as people, or as a company. By the way, Fishman's NAMM Show exhibit was amazing.

[DrDavid]

Thanks, Larry, for the link to that earlier thread. Can't say I understand fully the physics involved, but it's fascinating reading nonetheless.

Here's a completely naive question I have about the issue of vertical dispersion -- Am I correct in understanding that, generally speaking, there is a huge physical bias in line array designs toward horizontal rather than vertical sound dispersion?

And if so, given a performer on a raised stage, and a listener seated in the front row (significantly below "ear level" of the BagAmp placement on stage), would that front row listener experience a drastically reduced SPL, compared for example to someone seated many rows rearward in the audience whose ear level (vertically) is more in plane with the BagAmp?

Hope that question is somewhat clearly phrased.

[kramster]

Very good question DrD... over in Bose land some of the guys have put something under the back of the base to tilt it slight forward/downward whilst on a raised stage... but what if there is a balcony as well?? Ut oh now what?? And what if you set it up for when people or you the player are standing up and then all sit down... yikes!

[BoB/335]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

I'm curious as to what caused you to believe the bass roll-off occurred well above 80 Hz?

Well it certainly WASN'T from anything I read on the spec sheet at the BA homepage. Guess I'll have to search the thousands of pages on the BagAmp. Thought I remember someone saying it started rolling off below 100Hz.

Hey Jack,

Thought you would have responded by now to a couple of PM's I've sent you over the last few weeks. Figured you to be busy with the NAMM showing. Maybe you might have a little time soon to answer.

[DrDavid]

Originally Posted by kramster

...some of the guys have put something under the back of the base to tilt it slight forward/downward whilst on a raised stage... but what if there is a balcony as well?? Ut oh now what?? And what if you set it up for when people or you the player are standing up and then all sit down... yikes!

Hi Kramster,

Exactly. Those are some of my concerns, too.

Maybe Jack will weigh in here on the issue of vertical dispersion, in venues where the BagAmp cannot be placed at ear level for all audience members.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by BoB/335

Hey Jack,

Thought you would have responded by now to a couple of PM's I've sent you over the last few weeks. Figured you to be busy with the NAMM showing. Maybe you might have a little time soon to answer.

Jack was at NAMM (always a huge time and energy suck) and is now in China.

[aboutjack]

Originally Posted by BoB/335

Well it certainly WASN'T from anything I read on the spec sheet at the BA homepage. Guess I'll have to search the thousands of pages on the BagAmp. Thought I remember someone saying it started rolling off below 100Hz.

Hey Jack,

Thought you would have responded by now to a couple of PM's I've sent you over the last few weeks. Figured you to be busy with the NAMM showing. Maybe you might have a little time soon to answer.

Man, I have been super slammed... CES + NAMM + a (current) trip to China. I am writing this from a hotel in Cixi, Zhejiang Province. I actually got off a plane in Nashville Sunday morning, was met there with a fresh suitcase, and got right back on a plane, without getting to go home... or leave the airport.

That said, I will not release frequency response data on the BagAmp, as it's meaningless with a line array (especially) and PA sets (generally) unless so narrowly and tightly specified as to be isolated to one specific location in 3D space, and is the exact same data point tightly published by every single manufacturer in the industry. Really. Freq plots are trash, unless they are exactly explained and everyone does the exact same thing to create them... honestly and with no wriggling. Nobody does that, so I'm not opening my product to false comparisons based on jiggered freq specs. This forces people to actually listen to my product and make a personal judgment. End of story.

That said, I'll repeat earlier statements that the BagAmp is solid to below 80Hz, so as to accurately reproduce a guitar (and of course vocals, which are even higher) without a Sub. Somebody on one of the boards asserted that he "felt" that the output trailed off below 100Hz. Whatever. I sure don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

Here's the company pablum on usage:

1. If you play guitar (electric or acoustic) and sing you get no tangible benefit at all from the Sub. Nada. Keep your money in your pocket.

2. If you use backing tracks, or run a group mix with bass, drums, keyboards or other low freq sound through the BagAmp, you'll absolutely need a Sub to get sound below 65Hz, which is where a cliff-like digital filter chops the BagAmp output to zero.

The Sub has a fixed filter slope to mate perfectly to the bottom of the BagAmp's response if placed within 6-feet or so of the BagAmp in a fairly open space. The only control is a level adjustment knob.

Hope this helps.

Jack