Pinging sound on Taylor G String

steved65 · #1 01-03-2020, 09:12 AM

Hi all!

I started using a Taylor 714 a few months ago. Great guitar otherwise but I am getting a harsh pinging sound from the G string. Kind of an overtone. It goes away when I fret the string. So only happens when the G is open.

I'm thinking maybe the nut is tight and it's pinching the string. But a little lubrication didn't help. I don't want to try to widen the slot without more research though.

Thinking it could somehow be the saddle but not sure why fretting it would make it go away in that case.

BlueStarfish · #2 01-03-2020, 10:10 AM

Just a guess ... Going off your “sounds like an overtone” comment. I had something very similar happen on one of my guitars (except the offending note was G#, not G). In the hopes my experience may help you, here it is.

Maybe this particular guitar has a natural resonant frequency for the top of approximately 196 hz (which is open G?) If that’s the case, whenever you hit that note, you’ll get an “acoustical feedback” phenomenon. It will come out with the G note playing super-strong on any open chord including that note (which is a lot of them of course).

Here are a couple of simple ways to tell if this is what is indeed happening:
1. Play the same G note on other strings (5th free on the D string for example). Do you get the same effect, only a little weaker? If so that’s a very strong tell.

2. Try playing plugged in, and set your notch filter on your preamp to 196 hz. Or, if you have one of those auto-feedback-killer systems, let it run until it locks on the same frequency and notches it out. Does that fix the effect, at least for the sound coming through your amp?

If one of these two tests confirms the diagnosis, then you can move on to trying to figure out what to do about it. Basically, fixing it involves either raising or lowering the natural resonant frequency of the soundboard by about 1/4 step (or, half of a semi-tone). Raising it is very hard (you would have to remove mass which is tough). Lowering it is easier, just add mass. Easiest way to try is to swap in brass bridge pins (which are a good deal heavier than regular pins and so add mass to the soundboard). Swap them in one by one and stop once the pinging reduces to your satisfaction. Or alternatively, switch to a mag soundhole pickup, those are usually at least a bit heavy.

If this is the wrong diagnosis then you’ll have to wait for another suggestion from another AGF’er.

steved65 · #3 01-03-2020, 10:45 AM

Thanks BlueStarFish. I never noticed the overtone when I played a G Bar chord at the third fret... but when I get home tonight I'll definitely mess around with that to be sure.

ljguitar · #4 01-03-2020, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steved65

Hi all!

I started using a Taylor 714 a few months ago. Great guitar otherwise but I am getting a harsh pinging sound from the G string. Kind of an overtone. It goes away when I fret the string. So only happens when the G is open.

I'm thinking maybe the nut is tight and it's pinching the string. But a little lubrication didn't help. I don't want to try to widen the slot without more research though.

Thinking it could somehow be the saddle but not sure why fretting it would make it go away in that case.

Hi steved

Have you tried weaving something soft (a piece of cloth) through the backside of the nut (toward the tuning pegs) to mute the headstock side of the string. I've encountered a few players over the years with felt a strip woven through the strings adjacent to the nut on the tuning peg side.

A thought about troubleshooting…
If it's pinging it could be that the string does not have enough windings on the peg shaft so the break angle keeps the string exerting downward pressure.

I wind all my wound strings all the way to the bottom of the shaft, because being an alternate tuner who plays Elixirs, it was a piece of advice I heard from David Wilcox about reducing string breakage from constant tuning-and-retuning the guitar. The 3rd string on Elixir strings is prone to breakage either at the peg when retuning, or at the saddle for heavy strummers who 'bounce' their hand near the bridge/saddle.

Just wondering about the break angle of the guitar relative to how far down the shaft the strings are wound so the string stays in contact with the slot in the nut (so the string doesn't shift while playing).

pieterh · #5 01-03-2020, 11:24 AM

Great advise from ljguitar.

Another culprit could still be the nut together with the first fret: if the slot is slightly too deep the string might be buzzing ever so slightly on the first fret. This disappears of course when fretting anywhere. If it is too deep then the earlier advice of needing the slot widened might make it worse as the slot might also end up slightly deeper. A luthier can take a look at it and tell you if it’s the nut or if the first fret could do with levelling slightly.

I’m posting from my phone so can’t remember if you covered this but have you changed string gauge? I had a similar problem with my G&L ASAT Classic on the g-string. It was also pinging and was hard to keep in tune. It turned out that the nut slots were very precisely cut which showed when I changed gauge and went from .009s to .010s on the top string. I had a luthier file the slot slightly and since then no problems!

steved65 · #6 01-03-2020, 01:08 PM

ljguitar, I did try dampening the other side of the nut. That wasn't it. Will double check the windings to see how low they are going.

pieterh, I don't think it is string buzz but I'll run some tests to be sure. The strings are the ones that came with the guitar. I'm about to change them and see if that makes a difference. They need changing anyways.

In looking around I saw a reference to "the taylor sitar ping on the D or G strings". It wasn't explained but seemed to have something to do with the saddle. I'll keep trying to find more info on that one.

shufflebeat · #7 01-03-2020, 01:47 PM

Next box to tick is look for some damage to the nut at the fretboard side, just where the string first touches the nut. There's quite a lot of physics going on just there and it only takes a miniscule bit flaking off to seriously affect the clarity of an open string.

If it does turn out to be the problem there is a trick with sodium bicarbonate and super-glue that you can find on the 'net for emergency repairs which is relatively solid.

P.S. If the string isn't making proper contact with the nut you may find the open string is slightly flat relative to fretted notes.

RalphH · #8 01-04-2020, 03:38 AM

If find PB Exilirs to be quite pingy on the open G string on both my Taylor and Gibson.

You could also be having an issue with the saddle. I chased a weird harmonic round and round till I figured the problem. See the link in my sig "Attention Taylor owners, check your saddle". If it primarily happens when plugged in theres a fair chance that's your issue.

rschultz · #9 01-04-2020, 11:21 AM

I had the same thing happen yesterday, same pinging sound on the G string. Haven’t figured it out yet🧐

Marty C · #10 01-05-2020, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RalphH

If find PB Exilirs to be quite pingy on the open G string on both my Taylor and Gibson.

You could also be having an issue with the saddle. I chased a weird harmonic round and round till I figured the problem. See the link in my sig "Attention Taylor owners, check your saddle". If it primarily happens when plugged in theres a fair chance that's your issue.

Thanks Ralph. I reviewed your post on the saddle issue. Mine is just like the picture you show. It’s a new expensive guitar and I am concerned about making changes like this.

How many of you have tried this?

Also, does impedance come into play with this system? Based on some advice from Martingitdave, I went straight to the mixer with much better results than using any EQ pedal. I also pulled an old Boss reverb pedal out of a drawer last night. Seems to change the sound some as well, to the better. I don’t really hear it now as I did before and never hear it unplugged.

RalphH · #11 01-05-2020, 06:22 AM

If you're plugging into something with the wrong impedance you could certainly affect the tone.

If you are concerned about attacking your saddle with a file then buy a new one first, shape that one to how you want it and install it - they just drop in and out (once you'd loostened the little hex screws on the ES-2 pickups! Don't forget that step on a Taylor!!). You'll know straight away if it's fixed your issues.

Marty C · #12 01-05-2020, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RalphH

If you're plugging into something with the wrong impedance you could certainly affect the tone.

If you are concerned about attacking your saddle with a file then buy a new one first, shape that one to how you want it and install it - they just drop in and out (once you'd loostened the little hex screws on the ES-2 pickups! Don't forget that step on a Taylor!!). You'll know straight away if it's fixed your issues.

Thanks Ralph. Will do. Mainly that little ting on the G string. Everything else seems to sound great. Hear it more on the third fret and some on the fifth.

AeroUSA · #13 03-09-2021, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty C

Thanks Ralph. Will do. Mainly that little ting on the G string. Everything else seems to sound great. Hear it more on the third fret and some on the fifth.

Did you figure this out? I have the same issue on my D string.

Caddy · #14 03-09-2021, 02:00 PM

My first thought would be to just clean up the nut slot for the third string. Sounds like the string may not be fully seated in the slot or binding a bit. Have run across that numerous times. Also make sure that slot is angled down toward the headstock.

SpruceTop · #15 03-10-2021, 04:24 AM

Most folks will think I'm nuts, and I Love Taylor Guitars but they're the King Of That "String-Ping/Sitar-Thing! Other brands have it too. My thoughts: Since the inclusion of factory-installed compensated saddles on new guitars many years ago, I've noticed an increase in the frequency (number of new guitars) that have what I term "that string-ping/sitar-thing" which is an annoying tinny ping and overtone on either the 3rd or 4th strings, and often both. This can be heard even when fretting these strings so it pretty much eliminates the nut as the culprit. Given the position of the compensation of these strings at the front edge of the saddle, I believe the string-ping/sitar-thing is a result of the string(s) contacting more of the downslope rear of the saddle than do any of the other four strings. This results in less downward 3rd- and 4th-string pressure on the compensated edge of the saddle and may likely cause this annoying tinniness in the tone. Although I've not done it, I believe that shaving away part of the downward curve of the saddle behind these two strings will eliminate "string-ping/sitar-thing" from these strings. Also, could these tinny overtones be more likely caused by the smaller relative diameters of the core and wrap wires for the 3rd and 4th strings?

Any thoughts on the above and what you have done to eliminate these annoying 3rd- and 4th-string tinny overtones?