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  #1  
Old 02-20-2018, 08:20 AM
jbraun002 jbraun002 is offline
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Default Santa Cruz Tony Rice vs Collings

Howdy all,

I'm hoping to get everyone's opinions on the Santa Cruz Tony Rice model compared to Collings offerings like the D2HA (t series, baked or otherwise).

Yeah, I know - (possibly) very different guitars. I'd still love to hear your stories and have been reading the forums for previous tales. Here's mine:

Just started looking for my 1st high end guitar to bluegrass/contest flatpick with. Been a jazz & country guitar/pedal steel player for many years, but am new to expensive dreadnoughts.

I always wanted to get a Santa Cruz Tony Rice by reputation, though I haven't played one in my area (and we currently don't really have any high-end acoustic shops anymore). I have played a number of newer Collings D1s and D2s - they sound great. Some of the options on the Collings spin my head around a bit (e.g., I had never considered bridge spacing prior to this search).

So I already know they're different, but I'd love to hear your characterizations of each brand/models and what you think the strengths/weaknesses are.

Thanks!
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Old 02-20-2018, 09:15 AM
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brencat brencat is offline
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Welcome to the forum!

You will get lots of opinions on this. The Tony Rice signature dreads can vary quite a bit. Some are awesome, others not so much. The Tony Rice Pro on the other hand is a totally different animal. Killer guitar (and significantly more expensive too). Santa Cruz will be warmer sounding, much easier and forgiving to play (slinkier feel once broken in), and are much lighter built than Collings. A Collings D will be much louder, much more articulate, have a lot more cut, have tight & quick bass response with a "hot" midrange, and very little room to hide behind if you do not play cleanly. They are also more modern sounding with a piano-like tone. The Santa Cruz tone is more traditional sounding... I call it 75% Martin / 25% Gibson.

You should definitely look at the Santa Cruz D/PW as well, which may save you some cash over the TRs. The one I own (a 2012 Sitka/EIR bought used/mint) is among the finest guitars I've ever played...and it kicked what was left of my Collings and Martin guitars out of the house for good.

Happy shopping!
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Old 02-20-2018, 09:34 AM
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Don54 Don54 is offline
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Brencat said it very well. I agree with just about everything. I don’t have experience with the TR Pro, so I have no opinion on that.
I’ve owned an SCGC Tony Rice and a Collings CW and currently own a Collings D2HG and SCGC DPW. The DPW is my favorite.
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Old 02-20-2018, 09:34 AM
J Patrick J Patrick is offline
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...i can only offer my perspective on the standard EIR/Sitka Tony Rice model as its the only one i own...(but i have played a Tony Rice Pro which was an absolute stunner and a Collings D2H which was not my cup of tea...a bit less relaxed feeling and sounding than the dreads i tend to prefer)...

...the TR i own is unique among the dreanoughts i've owned which have been mainly Martins, Huss&Daltons and Santa Cruz's....it does indeed seem to be tailored specifically to Tony Rices' style...very responsive and articulate...not as much low end as most dreads i've played which results in better overall balance...i'm inclined to describe it as a cross between a dread and an OM...its probably the best fingerpicking dreadnought i've owned to date and is more versatile than your average dread and crosses genres easily...it does have a good thump when you lay into it though...not what i would describe as a "cannon" but i'm not looking for that in any guitar these days...

....the neck size and shape on my TR is the closest to a 50's/60's Martin that i've played on a Santa Cruz guitar so that may be a factor to consider...even though i prefer a wider nut and string spacing for finger style i do like the narrower specs for bluegrass playing and strumming in general...

...i'll also add that i've heard quite a few spectacular flatpickers playing Collings...Bryan Sutton comes to mind....and of course Martin created the model and continues to make some mighty instruments...i played a D-21 Special a while back that was crazy good...

Last edited by J Patrick; 02-21-2018 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 02-20-2018, 09:52 AM
leonski leonski is offline
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Agree with Brencat also. The Collings I've played were all on the bright side, if that's what your looking for. When looking for a dreadnought, I tried a D/PW and that was it for me. Never looked back.
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Old 02-20-2018, 10:03 AM
musicman1951 musicman1951 is offline
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Collings are excellent guitars, but they have that sound: you either love it or you don't.

I played a bunch and they were obviously well made, but I don't connect with that sound. But it might be just the thing for Bluegrass. Definitely a try before you buy.
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Old 02-20-2018, 10:05 AM
BFD BFD is offline
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I took the same bluegrass dreadnought journey several years ago. Owned a SC TR standard (not pro) model for a short while, but ultimately found it unremarkable enough, in terms of tone and volume, to not want to keep. Plus its was headed for needing a neck reset.

Though I was not looking at Collings (new were out of my budget) and was playing primarily Martins, I ended up in a used Huss & Dalton vs used Collings D2HA shootout. Both were awesome but I ended up w/the Collings. The H&D was sweet and resonant - it was a very light build and I had concerns about it standing up to being dragging all over the place - festivals & whatnot. The Collings is a more solid build but still a cannon and the voicing is great in a live acoustic mix.

I've seen the occasional poster characterize Collings as unforgiving - I'm pretty sure anyone who is looking to optimize their flatpicked/single note tone will favor articulate-ness over 'forgiveness'; particularly if you're interested in contest playing. And it will serve you well in bluegrass mixes as well. My $0.02
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Old 02-20-2018, 10:18 AM
imwjl imwjl is offline
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Welcome.

I say delay your gratification and try a bunch of stuff. I love both makers. Mine are very different guitars, but I have one from each maker.

The one thing I have senses rather consistently over time is Santa Cruz tone usually seems to be very balanced or not with the extremes some have. Most Collings seem to have a brightness but I like it. It seems like most of the Goodalls I've picked up have some of that "piano tone" people describe.

If my Santa Cruz is not as exciting or bright or dark, it sure is pleasant over the long run.
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Old 02-20-2018, 10:58 AM
HFox HFox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imwjl View Post
Welcome.

I say delay your gratification and try a bunch of stuff. I love both makers. Mine are very different guitars, but I have one from each maker.

The one thing I have senses rather consistently over time is Santa Cruz tone usually seems to be very balanced or not with the extremes some have. Most Collings seem to have a brightness but I like it. It seems like most of the Goodalls I've picked up have some of that "piano tone" people describe.

If my Santa Cruz is not as exciting or bright or dark, it sure is pleasant over the long run.
try the Santa Cruz 1934 D ....You will NEVER need another Bluegrass guitar......maybe not another guitar PERIOD[emoji3][emoji3]
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  #10  
Old 02-20-2018, 11:33 AM
SuperB23 SuperB23 is offline
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I think the D/PW is a better comparison to the D2H and the Tony Rice to the CW. I've played a bunch of all examples I mentioned above.

For me personally I prefer the D/PW and Tony Rice Santa Cruz over the Collings sound. The standard Sitka and Indian Rosewood Tony Rice is a vastly different instrument from the Tony Rice Pro. Short of some mid 30s Martin D-28s and D-18s I've played the Tony Rice Pros that I've played have been my favorite 14 fret Dreadnoughts I've played. I prefer them over nearly all others I've played including the 1934 D and all the Martin Authentic models.

I prefer the light weight build of SCGC over Collings. I also like the slightly heavier bass eqed sound of the Tony Rice and D/PW SCGC guitars over the D2H and CW Collings guitars I've played.

Sometimes you can find a custom ordered Tony Rice with a German Spruce top or Adirondack Spruce top and these can come quite close to the Tony Rice Pro Models I've played but there is nothing quite like a Tony Rice Professional model in my opinion.
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  #11  
Old 02-20-2018, 01:47 PM
Dirk Hofman Dirk Hofman is offline
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I think this is a really nice comparison video. Actual playing starts at about 3:40 and he does a nice job comparing the same short pieces:



I've owned a couple of German-topped TR's and a few D1A's and D2H's myself and I also think Brencat's comments are on point. Santa Cruz makes a lighter, looser guitar with a bit more blended tone. Still more articulation, especially in the midrange than a Martin, but less than a Collings. Collings generally seem quite a bit louder, much rounder and fuller in the trebles, more consistent in tone, and a tighter, less pronounced bass.

I also find the feel of the Collings to be a bit larger. Whether that's the dimensions and/or the sharpness of the edges I'm not sure, but they feel lighter, softer, and a bit smaller. More comfortable over the long haul.

I have encountered enough variability in Santa Cruz guitars that I want tend to want to play them first rather than buy sight-unseen, though I've done the latter when a guitar was highly recommended by someone I knew. In contrast to SuperB23's comments I would extend that to the TR Pro. i've played a couple in Steve Swan's shop (when he sold them) that were much better than others.

I own a Santa Cruz 1942 Bluegrass D and no longer any Collings, and for me when I find a great Santa Cruz I prefer that sound and feel over Collings. I love both, and really love a great SCGC, but I've played a few that were just not up to par in my time.

I highly recommend a German or Adirondack top on the Santa Cruz, they really add a lot of tonal complexity. I think that complexity is much more apparent in a more lightly braced instrument like an SCGC than in a Collings.

I would also add that Santa Cruz guitars tend to be more subject to swings in humidity and temperature in terms of tone and response, where my Collings have always just "been there". If I want a really reliable, tough, and great-sounding guitar, I'd consider the Collings more.

This is all some serious hair-splitting. The differences are between one or the other fantastic guitar.
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