"thick post" tuners

[RJVB]

Vintage German guitars often used thicker posts. I cannot help but think those must cause less metal fatigue, and unless ceramic the white material will probably lose any sharpness at the hole's rim the 1st time you put strings on. As a result, I would hope they should cause less high E breakage or simply allow de/retuning it more often.



I'd expect them to be friendlier to nylon strings too and thus be the missing part of my resonator's nylon conversion.

Does anyone know if these are currently still produced? Or alternatively, how would you make caps to go on and achieve the same effect with standard machine heads?

PS: It does seem the strings are installed in a different way.

[Rudy4]

I think what you're seeing is the result of the German manufacturers adapting the ubiquitous slot head classical guitar tuners (which had the large diameter barrels as string posts) for vertical post steel string use.

I've adapted smaller post uke tuners to have a larger roller post to convert them for slot head uke designs. I slipped brass hobby tubing over the posts, bonding them together with epoxy.

The instructions for that are available on the archive of my old website HERE. The text is there, but photos aren't archived unfortunately.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

I've adapted smaller post uke tuners to have a larger roller post to convert them for slot head uke designs. I slipped brass hobby tubing over the posts, bonding them together with epoxy.

I'd be using something less permanent than copper tubing fixed with epoxy because ideally I'd want to be able to remove the caps to replace the tuners if that ever becomes necessary (ideally not sacrificing the caps either).

You mention Grover Sta-Tites; they get the same treatment I suppose?

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by RJVB

I'd be using something less permanent than copper tubing fixed with epoxy because ideally I'd want to be able to remove the caps to replace the tuners if that ever becomes necessary (ideally not sacrificing the caps either).

You mention Grover Sta-Tites; they get the same treatment I suppose?

Yes, the string post sleeves can be used for any tuner you wish. Here's an overview of doing the uke tuners.



The string post attachment isn't anything unusual, just a variation of the string lock wrap that is often used to prevent slippage.

[RJVB]

Hmm, I did not (yet) consider taking the tuners off and enlargening the holes, as I'd have to do too if I could find off-the-shelf thick-post tuners.

How about bushings?

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by RJVB

Hmm, I did not (yet) consider taking the tuners off and enlargening the holes, as I'd have to do too if I could find off-the-shelf thick-post tuners.

How about bushings?

The world is your oyster!

Sometimes we have to experiment a bit before circling back to tried and true methodology.

[RJVB]

If I were to install this kind of tuner I'd have to redo the holes in the headstock

2 questions about that to help me decide whether I enlarge them or more them (drill a new hole at the same distance from the edge):

- what mininal distance from the edge should I observe (this is a roughly 10mm thick mahogany piece of wood)
- what about break angles at the nut exit, and strings riding against another string's tuner?

My resonator is the one in most need of this conversion - currently it has shrink-wrap sleeviing on all but the lowest 2 tuners (plus an additional piece of polyvinyl hose over the high E tuner) but it also has a tiny headstock and the break angles of the 2 E strings are already quite steep.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by RJVB

If I were to install this kind of tuner I'd have to redo the holes in the headstock

I do not suggest you use Grover Uke tuners! You should use a more robust tuner made for guitar which has a slightly larger back plate, but it is up to you to decide what's appropriate to use and what your abilities are to adapt and use them.

2 questions about that to help me decide whether I enlarge them or more them (drill a new hole at the same distance from the edge):

- what mininal distance from the edge should I observe (this is a roughly 10mm thick mahogany piece of wood)

Your hole centers are normally positioned according to where you want the back plate to attach. If the holes are too close to the edge then there's not enough room for the back plate. All this depends on the tuning machines you select. I'd be looking for a machine that could be adapted in a way that didn't require removing the string shaft bushings or messing with the mother of toilet set overlay, but that's just me.

- what about break angles at the nut exit, and strings riding against another string's tuner?

Keep the string posts relatively low and that shouldn't be a problem. Steep break angles over the nut are generally considered to be a good thing. Low break angles encourage the strings to pop out of the slots. String interference with adjacent tuner shafts should not be a problem. You're not changing the basic headstock splay angle.

My resonator is the one in most need of this conversion - currently it has shrink-wrap sleeviing on all but the lowest 2 tuners (plus an additional piece of polyvinyl hose over the high E tuner) but it also has a tiny headstock and the break angles of the 2 E strings are already quite steep.

Working out mechanical details is part of what's required when we modify instruments.

See details above.

If you want to go so far as to replace your overlay then you can use anything you want after filling to existing string post holes.

[RJVB]

So installing tuners flush against the edge of the headstock leaves enough wood between the hole and the edge?

I meant the horizontal break angle due to tuners not being inline with the nutslots!

Not removing the shaft bushings means I'd have to cap the existing posts as far as I can see, and in a way that the cap can be removed. Otherwise they wouldn't be removable anymore...

As far as I can tell, enlargening the existing holes concentrically or even excentrically should not leave visible holes in the faceplate. That's the approach I'd take, if it can be done without weakening the headstock or causing constant tuning, string breakage or buzzing issues because of friction against other tuners or just enough contact with them.

[Merak]

Increasing the post size will also effectively reduce the gear ratio wouldn’t it?

[RJVB]

Yes - the ratio in the way that it is usually considered A single rotation of the post will (un)wind a longer bit of string. A (necessary?) evil with steel strings but probably an improvement with the stretchy composite strings.