Can someone please explain the science?

JKA · #1 06-13-2021, 09:13 PM

I play a Tacoma Guild D55. It's a boat anchor. To say it's slightly overweight is an understatement. Having said that, it's the loudest and most responsive acoustic guitar I've ever owned. It's an incredible strummer and the sweetest fingerpicker. That includes a couple of Froggies, a Martin D45, Martin OM42, Gibson J45's and 50's and SJ200's to name but a few.

It's a gigging guitar and has been played everyday since it was new. It's looking 'weathered' with dings and scratches and lots of lacquer missing from the neck.

The guitar sounded sublime from day one. I haven't noticed any change over the years. Everyone comments on how good it sounds. Many guitarist have asked to buy the guitar if I ever decide to sell (yeah, right). I always use the same strings...D'Addario 012 Phospher Bronze. It's always kept on a stand in direct sunlight (when the sun is shining) and occasionally receives a wipe down and gentle polish.

What makes a guitar sound (and play) great? It can't be anything to do with how lightly it's built,...can it? There must be other factors involved. Wood wise, mine is nothing special. Plain old spruce top and bog standard Rosewood back and sides. Any ideas or theories?

chasingchet · #2 06-13-2021, 09:19 PM

is Tacoma the brand or Guild?? thanks

JKA · #3 06-13-2021, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasingchet

is Tacoma the brand or Guild?? thanks

Sorry. It's a Guild D55 built in the old Tacoma factory.

Keith

chasingchet · #4 06-13-2021, 09:34 PM

ahhhh gotya....Im very familiar with guild..they are fantastic...yours seems to be your number1

Tannin · #5 06-13-2021, 09:36 PM

Guild, ChasingChet.

Fender bought out Tacoma (the company) and their factory in Tacoma (the place). Fender also bought out Guild, moved production to Fender's electric guitar factory in California, realised that wasn't going to work, and moved Guild production again, this time to the Tacoma factory. Then they bought out Ovation, and shut down the Tacoma factory, restarted Guild production in the former Ovation factory somewhere over east, failed completely to restart Tacoma production anywhere, finally realised that they weren't any good at acoustic guitars and sold what was left of Ovation to new owners, and sold what was left of Guild to different new owners. Cordoba (the new Guild owners) thankfully know a bit about making acoustic guitars and Guild, in yet another factory this time, a brand-new one in California, has been very successful since that time.

So this is a Guild made in Tacoma (the place) in the former Tacoma factory.

To the JKA: weight has very little to do with sound quality. The weight of the top is significant, but only some instruments vibrate the back. In violins, for example, the back is very important and makes a lot of the sound. In a piano, the soundboard (equivalent to the top of a guitar) does all the work, the body (equivalent to the back and sides of a guitar) does none. And guitars can be made either way: with an active back (violin style) or a passive back (like a speaker box). Either method works.

EZYPIKINS · #6 06-13-2021, 10:15 PM

Hard to beat a good Guild.

No matter how much you spend.

lar · #7 06-13-2021, 10:19 PM

It's great that you appreciate your D-55. I've never played one but heard similar, good, things about them.

Your guitar is relatively heavy for at least 2 reasons: 1) it's not a small guitar 2) Rosewood is heavy (can be twice as heavy as spruce). If it has electronics, add that in too. Also neck profile and tuners can have a small impact. Oh - any your fretboard is ebony, which is heavier than rosewood!

But those things say nothing about the top. The body can be thick and heavy, but the top might be made thin and with top notch spruce. And the sound of the guitar is very dependent on the top.

BTW - Verlon Thomson plays a D-50, and it also sounds great:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_Lkg7GsKQQ

Wade Hampton · #8 06-13-2021, 10:42 PM

Guilds have typically been heavily built. It’s part of what gives them their balanced sound, as opposed to the bassier sound they’d have if they were more lightly built.

The Chinese-built GAD Guilds tend to be more lightly built, and as a result don’t sound exactly like the US-made Guilds.

whm

AcousticDreams · #9 06-13-2021, 10:52 PM

Some have theorized that a heavy-stiff back and sides reflect the sound to the top more. As the back moves less, less energy is lost and reflected back to the top.

Not saying this is true, only what some have speculated. Regardless, a prime top is still needed.

Glennwillow · #10 06-13-2021, 11:40 PM

I don't have a scientific answer for you, but I have some ideas...

Sometimes the woods used on a particular guitar are just right. You may have been very fortunate in how things worked out on your Guild D55.

Sometimes the way a guitar is built fits very well into your playing style. The right player with a good guitar can also be a magic combination. I remember hearing B.W. Stevenson ("My Maria") play in a pub in Dallas back in about 1970 or 1971 before he'd even made his first album. He was just pounding on a Martin D-28 and making it sound fantastic as he sang over it with his powerful voice. I could never make a straight braced D-28 sound good, but he did. It just suited his style and he knew how to make it sing.

It also helps that the Guild D-55 is a good guitar. My experience with Guild dreadnoughts, especially rosewood and maple, is that they are heavy. But as others have noted, a heavy guitar can still sound good if the back and sides are reflective (like rosewood) and the top has the right responsiveness.

Enjoy your guitar! Glad you appreciate it!

- Glenn

Russ C · #11 06-14-2021, 12:25 AM

As others have said, the soundboard deserves the lion’s share of the credit for sound. Regardless of the weight of your guitar your soundboard is NOT heavy - any money.

JKA · #12 06-14-2021, 04:02 AM

Thank you all for your insight and for taking the time to respond. Everything you have all said makes great sense.

KenL · #13 06-14-2021, 05:55 AM

My old D-46 is the heaviest acoustic guitar I've ever played. It also sounds like a million bucks and is incredibly versatile. Nothing it can't do.

The second heaviest was a made-in-Corona D-55 that I sold to a neighbor lady recently. It was like the D-46 in many ways, so I let it go.

I guess these heavily built Guilds are the exception to the "lighter is better" rule.

musicman1951 · #14 06-14-2021, 06:44 AM

My favorite guitar is also my heaviest, by quite a margin. I don't think that's part of the formula.

If we could figure out the science we would reproduce it on every guitar. Wood is infinitely variable, and there are lots of operations that go into building a guitar. Sometimes it all just comes together in a wonderful way.

Fortunately, you are not required to understand why - only to enjoy the result.

redir · #15 06-14-2021, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKA

I play a Tacoma Guild D55. It's a boat anchor. To say it's slightly overweight is an understatement. Having said that, it's the loudest and most responsive acoustic guitar I've ever owned. It's an incredible strummer and the sweetest fingerpicker. That includes a couple of Froggies, a Martin D45, Martin OM42, Gibson J45's and 50's and SJ200's to name but a few.

It's a gigging guitar and has been played everyday since it was new. It's looking 'weathered' with dings and scratches and lots of lacquer missing from the neck.

The guitar sounded sublime from day one. I haven't noticed any change over the years. Everyone comments on how good it sounds. Many guitarist have asked to buy the guitar if I ever decide to sell (yeah, right). I always use the same strings...D'Addario 012 Phospher Bronze. It's always kept on a stand in direct sunlight (when the sun is shining) and occasionally receives a wipe down and gentle polish.

What makes a guitar sound (and play) great? It can't be anything to do with how lightly it's built,...can it? There must be other factors involved. Wood wise, mine is nothing special. Plain old spruce top and bog standard Rosewood back and sides. Any ideas or theories?

Sometimes it's just a little luck. Especially in the factory produced setting. There were literally tens of thousands of the exact same model guitar you got built. Out of all of those there are a few fantastic ones and a few terrible ones but mostly they are around the average. IT could just be that you got a winner.

Small shop luthiers can build a bit more consistently on the side of winners because they don't build to spec but rather to material properties and design. The Old prewar Martins tend to fall into the light build category and people love them for that. Modern schools of thought are suggesting you get a better guitar with thick heavy sides and more mass, even adding weights as necessary.