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Old 06-11-2021, 10:48 AM
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Default Swingin' It

I've spent the last three weeks recording parts and mixing some swing music for a soundtrack. It has been a tour through Count Basie, Glenn Miller, and the Andrews Sisters, and has been a blast. This was a thoroughly modern production! By that I mean the various components for this were recorded in my studio and all over everywhere. The brass contractor was in Germany, I think.

My challenge was to give the productions a vintage air while bringing the recording and mixing techniques up to the present. Thank goodness I ran across Gruisen/Rosen Productions In the Digital Mood back in the '80s and they paved the way for me. I was able to play it for the scoring composer and reassure him we could pull it off.



In exchange he gave me links to examples of each of the tunes he had based the songs on and I was able to stream them down via Spotify to get my bearings. In the end, the only thing I had to replace was the kick drum on one song. Between the pickup being via an inside mic that truly had a resonant, "pongy" inside character and the kick part being a little sparse, I replaced the kick and added some beats to beef things up.

So, that's what I've been up to. The next project I've turned to is the mix for a movie. Now THAT'S a contrast.

Bob
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Old 06-13-2021, 08:17 AM
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I bet that was a refreshing change. Sound great
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Old 06-13-2021, 08:39 AM
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Nice. Great production.
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Old 06-13-2021, 09:44 AM
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What an interesting project, Bob!

I own that album "In a Digital Mood" done by the modern Glenn Miller Orchestra. It's a terrific CD. When I was a kid my parents used to dance in the living room as the hi-fi played old Glenn Miller songs.

I'm sure this old music is part of the reason I was given my first name.

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Old 06-13-2021, 12:31 PM
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Interestingly enough, back in October of 2002, when I was in New York for the Audio Engineering Society, the Eighth Air Force Glenn Miller Orchestra was a featured performer. Various top-end P.A. companies had competed to be allowed to provide sound for the event so you can imagine that the sound was first-rate. My seat-mate for the evening was a surprise, though: Bruce Swedien, recording engineer for Quincy Jones and Micheal Jackson happened to drop in. He was a nice and unassuming fellow so we enjoyed the band's performance together. It is a little-known fact that Glenn's orchestra traveled with a string section, as this one did.

Bob
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Old 06-13-2021, 01:12 PM
AcousticDreams AcousticDreams is offline
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Love it Bob! I love old time music. Huge fan of Classic movies from the 30's, & 40's that often plays some good old fashion swing and orchestra tunes.
Very Smooth recording.
Details Please!.. what exactly did you do for this recording? Master compression? Mics for recording? EQ?
By the way, I ordered on Friday the Neck Cradle you recommended. Actually quite a bargain considering it is all leather.
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Old 06-13-2021, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
I've spent the last three weeks recording parts and mixing some swing music for a soundtrack. It has been a tour through Count Basie, Glenn Miller, and the Andrews Sisters, and has been a blast. This was a thoroughly modern production! By that I mean the various components for this were recorded in my studio and all over everywhere. The brass contractor was in Germany, I think.

My challenge was to give the productions a vintage air while bringing the recording and mixing techniques up to the present. Thank goodness I ran across Gruisen/Rosen Productions In the Digital Mood back in the '80s and they paved the way for me. I was able to play it for the scoring composer and reassure him we could pull it off.



In exchange he gave me links to examples of each of the tunes he had based the songs on and I was able to stream them down via Spotify to get my bearings. In the end, the only thing I had to replace was the kick drum on one song. Between the pickup being via an inside mic that truly had a resonant, "pongy" inside character and the kick part being a little sparse, I replaced the kick and added some beats to beef things up.

So, that's what I've been up to. The next project I've turned to is the mix for a movie. Now THAT'S a contrast.

Bob
I have had that CD since it first came out. One of my all time favorites. Love big band music.
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Old 06-13-2021, 03:25 PM
Joseph Hanna Joseph Hanna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
I've spent the last three weeks recording parts and mixing some swing music for a soundtrack. It has been a tour through Count Basie, Glenn Miller, and the Andrews Sisters, and has been a blast. This was a thoroughly modern production! By that I mean the various components for this were recorded in my studio and all over everywhere. The brass contractor was in Germany, I think.

My challenge was to give the productions a vintage air while bringing the recording and mixing techniques up to the present. Thank goodness I ran across Gruisen/Rosen Productions In the Digital Mood back in the '80s and they paved the way for me. I was able to play it for the scoring composer and reassure him we could pull it off.



In exchange he gave me links to examples of each of the tunes he had based the songs on and I was able to stream them down via Spotify to get my bearings. In the end, the only thing I had to replace was the kick drum on one song. Between the pickup being via an inside mic that truly had a resonant, "pongy" inside character and the kick part being a little sparse, I replaced the kick and added some beats to beef things up.

So, that's what I've been up to. The next project I've turned to is the mix for a movie. Now THAT'S a contrast.

Bob
Wait...so this is your mix? Fantastic job! This is just an outstanding sonic feel. Sounds like a million dollars Curious as to what movie you're working on?

Last edited by Joseph Hanna; 06-13-2021 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 06-13-2021, 03:43 PM
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Bob Womack Bob Womack is offline
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Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna View Post
Wait...so this is your mix? Fantastic job! This is just an outstanding sonic feel. Sounds like a million dollars Curious as to what movie you're working on?
Not my mix - just a reference to show how the recording techniques can be updated. Sorry for the confusion. The movie is a feature film for the Middle East in the Urdu language, a Hindustani derivative. Funny, huh?

Bob
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Old 06-13-2021, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
Not my mix - just a reference to show how the recording techniques can be updated. Sorry for the confusion. The movie is a feature film for the Middle East in the Urdu language, a Hindustani derivative. Funny, huh?

Bob

You couldn’t make that up, could you?

As an aside, I wonder how many more of us have a copy of that CD. It was one of the first I ever bought when I got my first CD player in 1987 or so.

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Old 06-13-2021, 07:38 PM
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Details Please!.. what exactly did you do for this recording? Master compression? Mics for recording? EQ?
I did all the recording of the cast singing parts for this set of songs. I've chosen a mic chain for recording both the dialog and vocals for the songs so that they match throughout production. I'm using a Neuman TLM-170 (edit: black band) through an Avalon VT-737 tube preamp/channel strip. I put in a high pass filer and a really minimal amount of compression, really limiting (about three db to catch peaks during tracking) with the fastest attack and recovery setting the tube compressor can offer. I add a little high end air to the mic as I track. We track the vocals against a stereo scratch mix of the song that the composer has assembled with keyboards. I usually end up with between six and twelve tracks of takes for each of the five characters. When the tracking is done I export those tracks and and send them to the composer. Meanwhile he has made up scoring charts and sent them off to the various contractors who execute the parts.

About a week later the composer has chosen his vocal takes, recorded the rhythm section, and brought in the tracks from the contractors, brass, wind, strings, etc. If I have guitar parts to add I do them sometime during that week and send them in. When he's got most of the song he books time with me sends it to me. For the swing band numbers I ended up with about fifty tracks.

My mixes always start with the drums. I build the kit and get the drums driving the song first. If the drum arrangement isn't quite on or the sounds aren't right I'll rearrange and substitute parts as I did on the swing band. The snare gets its own reverb. If there is going to be parallel compression on the drums I'll begin introducing it. I group the drums at this point. Once the drums are provisionally right I add the bass and get the two talking. The bass typically gets a UA1176 compressor plug to level it out and, if necessary, I'll carve out some of the mids so that it doesn't compete with the voice and mid-heavy rhythm instruments. If it is an electric bass I may also add a subharmonic synth. From there I add the other basics of the rhythm section: piano, guitar, etc. Once I get the band working I start on the vocals.


The lead vocals typically get a complete work-up. I chop them into sections and treat them as sections. Here you'll get lots of dynamics that must be managed with automation to allow the vocal to sit well in the band. I'll typically add more "air" once they get into context. They get their own reverb. The BGVs get grouped and EQ'd together and are leveled out to blend well.


At this point I open up the full mix and listen to everything in context. I was just listening to an interview with Elliot Scheiner who mixed Steely Dan and the Eagles and was reminded where my mixing habits came from. We both started mixing on Neve 8058/8068/8078 consoles before automation and before SSL introduced the bus compressor. We understand the idea of the glue a bus compressor adds but don't depend on it. Around this time I will insert an SSL master bus compressor in the two-mix but I really don't hit it for more than about 3db or compression. Once I've got a mix I'll adjust it to -24 LUFS density and squirt out a broadcast mix. With that in hand I'll quickly master up a -12 CD level mix for the show producers to listen to using a UAD precision limiter to level things out by about 3db. I'll squirt that out and then deliver to all the people who need to hear it and backup the project to deep storage. Voile'!

From there is comes down to honing call and response between voices and instruments or sections and touching up everything to optimize the overall presentation.


Quote:
By the way, I ordered on Friday the Neck Cradle you recommended. Actually quite a bargain considering it is all leather.
I hope you love it!

Bob
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Last edited by Bob Womack; 06-14-2021 at 04:39 AM. Reason: technical edit
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  #12  
Old 06-13-2021, 07:50 PM
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Bob Womack Bob Womack is offline
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Originally Posted by David Eastwood View Post
You couldn’t make that up, could you?
Wouldn't want to! Credit where due. The golden rule in practice in my field.
Quote:
As an aside, I wonder how many more of us have a copy of that CD. It was one of the first I ever bought when I got my first CD player in 1987 or so.Attachment 58099
I got my first CD before I had a player. At the 1983 Audio Engineering Society, Solid State Logic had a copy of the multitrack for Dave Gruisin's latest CD, Night Lines, for us to test out their 4000 and 6000 consoles. I ordered a copy as soon as I got home. I think In the Digital Mood was somewhere around my third or fourth!

Boy, those were exciting times! i met Rupert Neve at that same AES conference.

Bob
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Old 06-13-2021, 10:47 PM
AcousticDreams AcousticDreams is offline
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While I have never personally had the golden opportunity to try out a TLM170, everything I have ever heard recorded with it has always sounded so even and smooth. One of those mics that just seems to work on everything.
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Old 06-14-2021, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars View Post
While I have never personally had the golden opportunity to try out a TLM170, everything I have ever heard recorded with it has always sounded so even and smooth. One of those mics that just seems to work on everything.
We've got four of them, two red and two black. I'm sorry: above I said that I used the reds. The ones in my room are actually blacks. I like the sound of the blacks better but they all are very versatile mics. The young engineers I work with sometimes think of them as a little boxy but they love the sound once I've touched the EQ. I suppose that's what familiarity will do for you. I've been working with this pair for thirty years. They are quite a bit quieter than the U-47 or AKG C12. They've got more character than an AKG C414. The U-47 has that upper-mid push that they don't have and that is lovely for some stuff. So there you go: selection.

A couple of years ago, scoring engineer Danny Wallin called the TLM170 his "desert island" mic. I loved the sound of his scores.

Bob
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Old 06-14-2021, 08:14 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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When I have a church/classical recording gig (once or twice a year) and I have to rent mics, those are what I try to get. They work great on pretty much anything, either distant of as a spot mic.
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