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  #16  
Old 06-29-2021, 09:28 AM
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Maybe Steve “TheEdwinson” will chime in here???
He had this happen last year, and after many, many…..many weeks (2-3 months) if I remember correctly) it miraculously reappeared and arrived at its destination unscathed.

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Last edited by Joel Teel; 06-29-2021 at 09:44 AM.
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  #17  
Old 06-29-2021, 09:57 AM
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I had the same thing happen with a guitar that was shipped to me. Tracking showed that it arrived at my local service hub. But then the status was changed to “damaged/undeliverable.”

Further investigation showed that it had been stolen in transit.

It took a few calls, but I was refunded for the loss.
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  #18  
Old 06-29-2021, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Teel View Post
Maybe Steve “TheEdwinson” will chime in here???
He had this happen last year, and after many, many…..many weeks (2-3 months) if I remember correctly) it miraculously reappeared and arrived at its destination unscathed.

joel
We all hope for this happy ending to your sad story!

Salud

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  #19  
Old 06-29-2021, 10:15 AM
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Man, I so hope this turns out alright. I know it's been some time but I can't imagine the guitar inside the case being severely damaged too (my guess is that Michael doesn't ship anything is lesser quality that a heavy-duty flight case) so my fingers are crossed for you that the box was just gnarled and the carrier just set it aside as undeliverable and will get to it. I know its hard to stay optimistic, and if Michael isn't then maybe that's the cue... but man I hope you get your guitar somehow. I would think it was more likely to be stolen then damaged beyond repair if it was in a flight case.

That said, if it was in a hiscox or visesnut (which I doubt) those have been known to be punctured my forklifts, in rare situations. Hopefully not the case.
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  #20  
Old 06-29-2021, 10:25 AM
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Of course Michael would be more upset than anyone else. He's the one who put his soul and labor into building the guitar, he's the one who has to now replace the guitar by building another one.
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  #21  
Old 06-29-2021, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H165 View Post
This is bad news, but it sounds like you have the resources to investigate on your own.

I have the impression (from this thread) that you know where it is, and the condition seems to be described by someone who has actually seen it.

I'm very curious - what prevents you or someone nearby from going to the last known location and asking to see the package?
Indeed, I know where it is. During that week in May severe weather resulted in a week long backlog totaling nearly a million packages. Chaos ensued and a large number of packages were deemed "damaged/undeliverable" and, we're told, put into a giant pile. The guitar is somewhere in that pile. I can't go retrieve the package myself because it's located in a warehouse that I understand looks something like the one at the end of Raiders of the Lost Arc. The shipper can't even find it, and they own the joint.



Quote:
Maybe Steve “TheEdwinson” will chime in here???
He had this happen last year, and after many, many…..many weeks (2-3 months) if I remember correctly) it miraculously reappeared and arrived at its destination unscathed.
This is possible. It might very well show up, but I'm not getting my hopes up. My emotional intelligence tells me that it's best to just let it go.

Quote:
I had the same thing happen with a guitar that was shipped to me. Tracking showed that it arrived at my local service hub. But then the status was changed to “damaged/undeliverable.”

Further investigation showed that it had been stolen in transit.

It took a few calls, but I was refunded for the loss.
Without proof of damage we're left to assume that theft is possible. If anybody sees an Andy McKee Signature G4.2 Model out there for sale, that'd be mine. I believe there are only two in existence (save for Andy's personal guitars).
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Last edited by Scallywag; 06-29-2021 at 07:37 PM.
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  #22  
Old 06-29-2021, 01:45 PM
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I am unsure of the Canadian border situation currently, but when I lived in Albany we would sometimes drive to Montreal which was a little under 5 hours for a 3 day weekend or to fly out of Montreal as it was so much cheaper.

I would imagine a road trip may be on order when this second guitar is finished. I can't imagine how angry you must be over this, I would be livid and feel helpless in that trying to get information in these situations and find anyone will to take on the responsibility of getting to the bottom of it, is impossible, in my experience.
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  #23  
Old 06-29-2021, 08:29 PM
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From NYC, I'd just make the drive..... assuming you can get into Canada. Wasn't long ago that I knew you couldn't.
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  #24  
Old 06-29-2021, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bard Rocks View Post
From NYC, I'd just make the drive..... assuming you can get into Canada. Wasn't long ago that I knew you couldn't.


That’s the plan the next time around, pick it up in person. This was not an option in May. I’ve actually been between Minnesota and Florida for the past year riding out the pandemic. I’ll be heading back to NYC this fall, though living in Manhattan I don’t plan on bringing a car. I’ll either rent one of just fly the thing back myself. Plus, I’ll owe Michael a nice dinner and a stiff drink. Despite everything I do feel like I’ve gained a friend in this, something I’m very appreciate of.

I can’t emphasize this enough - Michael Greenfield is a wonderful human being.
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  #25  
Old 06-30-2021, 04:10 AM
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I feel for you Matt. Something like this just shakes a person to the core. As someone who has used shippers for many of my transactions, and had a few get "stuck", I have not had one get permanently lost (thank goodness). We are all hoping the miracle re-emergence happens for you. And good on Michael for immediately building you another. These guys are GOOD!
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  #26  
Old 06-30-2021, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scallywag View Post
Indeed, I know where it is. During that week in May severe weather resulted in a week long backlog totaling nearly a million packages. Chaos ensued and a large number of packages were deemed "damaged/undeliverable" and, we're told, put into a giant pile. The guitar is somewhere in that pile. I can't go retrieve the package myself because it's located in a warehouse that I understand looks something like the one at the end of Raiders of the Lost Arc. The shipper can't even find it, and they own the joint.





This is possible. It might very well show up, but I'm not getting my hopes up. My emotional intelligence tells me that it's best to just let it go.



Without proof of damage we're left to assume that theft is possible. If anybody sees an Andy McKee Signature G4.2 Model out there for sale, that'd be mine. I believe there are only two in existence (save for Andy's personal guitars).

They shipper confirms they have it, but it can’t be found, and, as per the shipper, it was damaged.
I would like to visually inspect the package but since they say it’s not possible you should be 100% covered by the shipper. Has there been any push back by the shipper?

Sorry you have to deal with this, but Glad that a second guitar will be made for you.
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  #27  
Old 06-30-2021, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbroady View Post
They shipper confirms they have it, but it can’t be found, and, as per the shipper, it was damaged.
I would like to visually inspect the package but since they say it’s not possible you should be 100% covered by the shipper. Has there been any push back by the shipper?

Sorry you have to deal with this, but Glad that a second guitar will be made for you.
No push back per se that I'm aware of. Michael has been working directly with his account rep. This incident has apparently exposed some systemic operational problems in the organization, and as such senior leadership is apparently actively involved. Is that lip service? Perhaps. This may be a useful data point for them but from where we sit nothing has actually been expedited.
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  #28  
Old 06-30-2021, 09:33 AM
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I’m quite sorry for you and Michael Greenfield. I did have a guitar disappear for several weeks “lost”. I called the FedEx shipping warehouse daily where it supposedly was. After almost a month I called and the manager I was speaking to all along was not the actual overall manager. When I spoke to her, I described the box and she walked into the warehouse and found it while on the phone to me. It was set aside as “super fragile” to be hand loaded at the end of the truck which was then forgotten and then another small empty box was placed on top of it. They all assumed the lower box was also empty as no one could see the shipping label or tracking number so it was just sitting in a climate controlled room with a small empty box over the label for a month. Hopefully, something like that was occurring.
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Old 06-30-2021, 10:25 AM
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I've been very fortunate so far in my guitar buying and selling at distance, but I hear enough stories like yours to understand that it's probably only a matter of time before something similar happens to me. It is heartwarming to hear how the builder responded, and I hope he's made whole by the shipping company and also hope that your wait for the new guitar isn't too long.
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Old 06-30-2021, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitars44me View Post
We all hope for this happy ending to your sad story!

Salud

Paul
Though it sounds ominous and heartbreaking that there was that cryptic message from the shipper, indicating some kind of disaster, hopefully it is just another case of bureaucratic incompetence, and the guitar was misplaced without the accompanying documents. That happened with a guitar I shipped over to England last year. I shipped via FedEx, and my customer decided to insure at half value to save some money. BAD choice! Always insure at full value!

Long story short: The package went missing at the FedEx hub in Memphis, which is HUGE, practically a small city, with its own international airport. You could lose a cruise ship there. The package remained missing for several months. My client and I held out hope that it would turn up eventually, hoping it was shunted off in a corner somewhere, undiscovered, because the alternative was to file a claim and only get a payment for half the cost of the guitar, or nothing at all.
Happily, the package finally WAS discovered, undamaged, but missing all the documentation, which had been affixed to the box in a plastic pouch, so that Customs docs were easily accessible. With the benefit of hindsight, THAT is what happened: someone took the documents, including the shipping label, out of the pouch, and didn't put them back. After many weeks of hounding the FedEx reps, providing elaborate description of the box, and fervently praying, suddenly the package was discovered, and shipped overnight to its destination in England. It worked! Have faith!

Here's what I learned from this experience:
-Document EVERYTHING. Ask the luthier, or whoever is shipping the guitar, to take photos of the box before sending it, detailing any identifiable features, the shipping label, etc. so you can transmit them to the shipper if a search needs to be launched. Take pictures of the guitar and the case. You will need these if a search needs to be made.

-Again, always insure the package at full value. The USPS will only insure packages up to $5000. UPS and FedEx are happy to take your money for any amount of insurance. It adds a lot to the shipping cost, but compared to the value of your guitar, it's worth it. If you can add your new guitar to your homeowner policy, do so before it is shipped, if possible. High value packages DO get special treatment. Every time the label is scanned, the worker is alerted that they need to handle with care; the shippers do NOT want to have to pay a $25,000 settlement, so they will go to some lengths to avoid it happening.

Attention (Achtung!) luthiers and people who are shipping guitars to other people:-Cover all your bases with origin and destination info. Don't just stick your shipping label and Customs documents on the box and call it good. Make copies of your shipping label and ANY and ALL other shipping/customs documentation, and put them in an envelope, taped to the case, INSIDE the box. Write both origin and destination addresses on the outside of the box, along with the tracking number, if possible. If the label gets torn off, removed or otherwise lost, the package can still be identified and tracked.

-In the event of a mishap, you'll need to act fast. Get online, and on the phone, to try to find someone who can help. Provide documentation and descriptions. Do some investigating. DEMAND ACCOUNTABILITY from your shipper, but don't be rude or abusive. Remember the person you're talking to didn't cause this to happen; their job is to help you sort it out. Keep your temper under control, or you risk making a bad situation that much worse.

- In the event that all hope is lost, file an insurance claim as soon as you possibly can, and provide all documentation and photos to support your claim. If you sit on it for two weeks, there's a strong likelihood your claim will be disputed. Shippers are notorious for coming up with bogus reasons to deny a claim. You need to establish an airtight case, insofar as possible.

-If your package does arrive, but the box is damaged, take photos of it immediately, hopefully with the delivery person in the picture. If the case and/or the guitar are damaged, take lots of detailed photos, right after the package is delivered. Use your phone, or a camera that can provide a time stamp of exactly when the picture was taken. This will go a long way to support your damage claim.

-(EDIT) You should be certain that the person that sold you the guitar provides you with an official bill of sale for the instrument, and also the case, so that you have proof of the value of the guitar/case. That is very important for making an insurance claim, especially for a very high-dollar item. It's NOT a good idea to inflate the valuation, as that could be prosecutable as insurance fraud.

I really hope this situation comes to a happy, triumphant conclusion, and soon. Best of good fortune to everyone involved.
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Last edited by theEdwinson; 07-01-2021 at 09:17 AM.
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