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  #1  
Old 06-10-2022, 03:30 PM
Robin, Wales Robin, Wales is offline
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Default What archtop is Sierra playing?



Any ideas what guitar this is?
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  #2  
Old 06-10-2022, 03:49 PM
Driftless Driftless is offline
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Both guitars are Kay. Hers is probably a birch body with a pressed top. The flamey stripe pattern is painted on. They were never fancy, but some of us weirdos like them.
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Old 06-10-2022, 07:58 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Harmony's entry-level Archtone line had a similar model, the "blonde-ivory" H1214, which at $27.50 retail was a student mainstay when I was taking lessons in the early-60's and, unlike many such instruments, was made of all-solid woods (birch in this case). If you knew how to finesse them they could be great little boxes - not a lot of complexity but plenty of cutting power for either lead or rhythm work - and it's a shame so many of them succumbed to the ravages of the old "black box" New Brunswick (NJ) Black Diamond strings. Here's a pic of an excellent-plus condition late example from 1964, the next-to-last year of production (the pickguard is probably a replacement, in fact typical of the upscale Broadway model, and they had just gone over to the dreaded plastic adjustable floating bridge ):

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Old 06-11-2022, 03:33 PM
rscott4079 rscott4079 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driftless View Post
Both guitars are Kay. Hers is probably a birch body with a pressed top. The flamey stripe pattern is painted on. They were never fancy, but some of us weirdos like them.
Yep, just further proof that you don't need a fancy, expensive guitar to make great music.

Here's another I like from the Western AF youtube video series. I believe Sam is playing an Airline Double Diamond. One diamond (the pickguard) has been removed.

https://youtu.be/UWL9HMa8-8U
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  #5  
Old 06-11-2022, 04:25 PM
Robin, Wales Robin, Wales is offline
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Thanks for all the great responses! I have a marker down on the pressed solid birch archtop in the photo above. We think that it may be a "Playtime". It was brought over to the UK during WW2 by the young GI in the photo above. If it rebuilds OK then it will be heading my way.

I'll be playing just the sort of songs you see on Western AF on it. I always thought that I was old fashioned, but it looks like I'm actually on trend.
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I'm learning to flatpick and fingerpick guitar to accompany songs.

I've played and studied traditional noter/drone mountain dulcimer for many years. And I used to play dobro in a bluegrass band.




Last edited by Robin, Wales; 06-12-2022 at 01:22 AM.
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  #6  
Old 06-12-2022, 03:27 AM
RomanS RomanS is offline
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Kurt Cobain plays a very similar looking Kay Catalina in Nirvana's "Come As You Are" video.
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  #7  
Old 06-13-2022, 02:02 PM
Howard Emerson Howard Emerson is offline
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That’s a perfect example of artists/players using the sonic limitations of inexpensive instruments in their best light.

It’s proof that context is paramount.

It’s also a common reason for runs, ie buying sprees, on guitars that were often ignored by anyone with even a modest budget.

The disappointment is no surprise, of course, because too many listeners think “If I had that guitar I’d have that sound!”

David Rawlings all over again.

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Old 06-13-2022, 02:36 PM
Driftless Driftless is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Emerson View Post
That’s a perfect example of artists/players using the sonic limitations of inexpensive instruments in their best light.

It’s proof that context is paramount.

It’s also a common reason for runs, ie buying sprees, on guitars that were often ignored by anyone with even a modest budget.

The disappointment is no surprise, of course, because too many listeners think “If I had that guitar I’d have that sound!”

David Rawlings all over again.

Regards,
Howard Emerson
The pressed archtops, birch guitars, and ladder braced flat tops are all in a similar category of "sonic limitation". If you want to just strum cowboy chords and hear a choir of angels, they will not be for you.
But whether intended or not by their makers, they have useful sounds. The dry plinky fundamental is very useful in the hands of musicians who know what to do with it, and what context to put it in.
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Old 06-13-2022, 03:07 PM
robroy robroy is offline
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Thanks for sharing the video Robin just an incredible live performance.

And, yes, proof that the price of your guitar is rather immaterial.
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  #10  
Old 06-13-2022, 03:51 PM
Robin, Wales Robin, Wales is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Emerson View Post
That’s a perfect example of artists/players using the sonic limitations of inexpensive instruments in their best light.

It’s proof that context is paramount.

It’s also a common reason for runs, ie buying sprees, on guitars that were often ignored by anyone with even a modest budget.

The disappointment is no surprise, of course, because too many listeners think “If I had that guitar I’d have that sound!”

David Rawlings all over again.

Regards,
Howard Emerson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driftless View Post
The pressed archtops, birch guitars, and ladder braced flat tops are all in a similar category of "sonic limitation". If you want to just strum cowboy chords and hear a choir of angels, they will not be for you.
But whether intended or not by their makers, they have useful sounds. The dry plinky fundamental is very useful in the hands of musicians who know what to do with it, and what context to put it in.
These two arguments sum up my conundrum. I have "sonically limited" archtop, my Godin 5th Avenue. And I have to say that I have really enjoyed playing and singing with it in that sparse Carter style kind of way. And Travis picking on it with thumb and finger picks. But I also love the richness of my flat top, albeit a 000 size spruce top with cherry plywood b/s.

I have some money for a new guitar, and I really don't know what to get. I think that a vintage birch archtop would work for me for the open mic's and sessions I play around home. But something like a Martin D-18 or Gibson J45 or even an LG2 would also work.
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I'm learning to flatpick and fingerpick guitar to accompany songs.

I've played and studied traditional noter/drone mountain dulcimer for many years. And I used to play dobro in a bluegrass band.



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  #11  
Old 06-13-2022, 05:44 PM
Driftless Driftless is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin, Wales View Post
These two arguments sum up my conundrum. I have "sonically limited" archtop, my Godin 5th Avenue. And I have to say that I have really enjoyed playing and singing with it in that sparse Carter style kind of way. And Travis picking on it with thumb and finger picks. But I also love the richness of my flat top, albeit a 000 size spruce top with cherry plywood b/s.

I have some money for a new guitar, and I really don't know what to get. I think that a vintage birch archtop would work for me for the open mic's and sessions I play around home. But something like a Martin D-18 or Gibson J45 or even an LG2 would also work.
A birch archtop is not at all comparable to the flat tops you mentioned. If you're going to use it for solo acompaniment, you would be much better off with something like a J45. That's a versatile guitar that can sound full by itself, leave a hole for a voice, but still cut through to play a melody with other instruments. A birch archtop can be charming, but it's like a character actor. It can't play just any role.
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  #12  
Old 06-14-2022, 04:04 AM
Howard Emerson Howard Emerson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin, Wales View Post
These two arguments sum up my conundrum. I have "sonically limited" archtop, my Godin 5th Avenue. And I have to say that I have really enjoyed playing and singing with it in that sparse Carter style kind of way. And Travis picking on it with thumb and finger picks. But I also love the richness of my flat top, albeit a 000 size spruce top with cherry plywood b/s.

I have some money for a new guitar, and I really don't know what to get. I think that a vintage birch archtop would work for me for the open mic's and sessions I play around home. But something like a Martin D-18 or Gibson J45 or even an LG2 would also work.
Robin,
The X factor(s) in this scenario is/are your formidable skills as a player/multi instrumentalist. I am assuming the Soundcloud tracks are all done by you alone.

I don't think you'll have any problems making any given instrument work in some way. Even a pressed ply birch or maple archtop can be a stellar jazz or Chicago-style blues instrument with a magnetic pickup & the right amp.

Open mics, of course, are best attended traveling light, and a decent J-45 or LG-2 on a Shure mic (with a decent PA & attentive audience) will not hold you back.

Enjoy the hunt!

Howard Emerson
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  #13  
Old 06-14-2022, 05:56 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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I had a vintage German round-hole archtop in what was probably laminate birch (top & back). Single, transverse brace running the full width under the bridge. Despite the fact it had come loose over about 1/3 on the bass side, an apparently original sag in the top (saddle was cut to compensate for it) and a loose, warped neck it had a very charming sound. Warm. Pretty good instrument for fingerpicking and playing when not wanting to disturb house mates because not very loud that way (playing louder would also cause the loose brace to rattle).

I ended up giving it to my luthier who also organises workshops, as a learner instrument. I might have kept it for that purpose myself but I'm not likely to be able to set up a suitable workplace any time soon.
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