Gretsch Electromatic Questions

[loco gringo]

Looking at the Electromatic double cuts, they come in hollow body and center block. The hollows have a B60 Bigsby and the center blocks have a B70 Bigsby that has an extra bar that I have seen called a pressure bar. They also have different pickups, black top vs super hi/lo.

I have never owned a Bigsby equipped guitar. Anyone have experience with these. Anyone know why they use one on the center block and the other on the hollow? Any functional difference as far as staying in tune, intonation, etc?

Also, any input on the difference in pickups would be welcome.

Double cut differences:

Center block = B70 pressure bar Bigsby and Super Hi/Lo Trons.

Hollow body = B60 no pressure bar Bigsby and Black Top Filtertrons.

[loco gringo]

Further study leads me to the fact that the center block models have an anchored bridge. I am assuming that leads to the Bigsby with the bar?

[MC5C]

The B60 is designed to be anchored firmly at the tail block only, and to float/rest lightly over the hollow body. It's designed to allow the full hollow body resonance of the guitar to be less muffled. The B70 is designed to be screwed down firmly to the top of the semi-solid guitar. Because it's firmly attached to the top, it can have the pressure bar that increases downward pressure on the bridge. I'm going to say that these two guitars might look similar at first glance but they are very different in construction, approach, and probably feel and sound. You're going to have to either make an educated guess, or preferably play both, to know which you prefer.

[Steve DeRosa]

Lifelong Gretsch guy here:

Brian's 100% right about the function of the pressure bar on the B70, and while it does create additional downforce on the bridge, it unfortunately had the habit of tearing up the top of any hollowbody instrument to which it was mounted back in the day (in its original - and still available - B7 configuration); I had one that was mounted to a Carlo Robelli '53 ES-5 knockoff and, in spite of the fact that I never used it for its intended purpose (I bought the guitar as a jazzbox), it tore a hole in the top right at the mounting point (I eventually filled the hole and replaced it with a trapeze tailpiece). FYI I have one on my 3-PU 5622T-CB semi-hollow - where it's solidly anchored to the center block - and for the few occasions that I use it everything seems to be holding up; I also have the dedicated Gretsch version of the B6 (similar to the B60) on my '62 White Falcon RI, and when set up/used within their original design parameters (11- or 12-gauge strings/wound G, no dive-bombing) tuning isn't an issue IME...

I'm quite familiar with the Korean-made 5400/5600-Series E-matics, and I'll state unequivocally that their tone/QC/playability exceeds many of the (several hundred) "Golden Era" Brooklyn originals I've played since I was a kid (if you grew up in that time place your first "good" electric waa a Gretsch, period); that said, the various combinations of pickups and body construction will each provide you with different tones, so I'd recommend auditioning the models you're considering before you make your decision. Speaking in the very broadest of terms - again as a lifetime owner who plays every new Gretsch product that I can get my hands on - I can give you an idea of what to expect (as always YMMV depending on your playing style, setup, associated amplification, etc.):

• 5400 full-hollow thinline: the classic "Brooklyn Gretsch" hollowbody tone with a subtle midrange "thump" not present in the vintage originals, as a result of the thicker woods used in their construction (FYI Gretsch used very thin woods back in the day - thinner than many acoustic instruments - which accounted for much of their lively, "airy" tone); I've seen several local-level Beatles-tribute bands use the walnut/gold 5422 as their "George" guitar, and played with flatwound strings through a Vox AC30 in a live setting you'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference from a Country Gent...
• 5600 semi-hollow: IMO the most versatile design in the current Gretsch lineup regardless of price, this one'll not only cop 95%+ of those iconic Chet and "KIng George" tones but will take you into 335 territory with a distinct Gretsch twist; if you like to explore the harder side of things once in a while - classic rock, '60s-70s blues-rock, Southern, or anything else for which you might consider a Gibson 335/345/355 - the 5600 is a real hidden gem...
• "Blacktop" Filter'Tron: As company ad copy states this one was reverse-engineered from a '70s Baldwin-era Filter'Tron, IME a different flavor of Gretsch than the "High Sensitive" Filter-tron tones I grew up with (and that most players think of when they hear "Gretsch"): thicker, more midrange emphasis (as compared to the upper-mid peak of the Brooklyn FT's and their Professional Series reissues), crunchier, but without ever getting muddy as full-size humbuckers can often do - if you're a lead player who needs to cut through the band without resorting to sheer volume, or you want to goose the front end of a high-gain tube amp into the sweet spot without getting thrown out of the club, these just may be your pickup...
• Super Hi-lo'Tron: Unlike their oft-reviled '60s namesake (only Brian Jones - with the puke-green Double Annie he used in the early Stones days - and George Harrison seemed to like them) these are a true humbucker designed to have the Hi-lo frequency response with more power/gain, and as the owner of both a '64 Double Annie with original Hi-lo's and a '16 5622T-CB with the current "Super" version I'll say they came fairly close; they're an excellent match for the 5600 semi-hollows BTW, and that's where they seem to have found their home in the Gretsch lineup. IMO one big plus in the current versions is that they dialed back the Fendery trebles of the originals - not a good fit for a lightly-built hollowbody guitar IME - and while they sound good through my '65 Super Reverb RI (the original Hi-los were not only screechy to my ears when I played them through original blackface Supers back in the day, but had a tendency to feed back when you reached club-level volume) they really shine through an EL84-equipped amp: I can get "NME '65" Vox AC50 Beatles tones through my Bugera V22 (the retrofitted Eminence Swamp Thang and Russian mil-spec tubes make it sound "bigger" than an AC combo), and a recent test-play of a current twin-PU 5622 through an AC15 had me channeling every 1964 George Harrison lick I could think of. Never heard them on a full-hollow - not even sure if they produce one at this time - but at around 7-1/2 pounds on the strap the current 5600's are almost two pounds lighter than their recent predecessors (and less than one pound heavier than the 5400 full-hollow), and if given the choice I'd reach for a 5622 every time...
• Today's Gretsch-player hack: if you already have a guitar equipped with Baldwin-era FT's and you're looking to cop the Super Hi-lo vibe, reverse one set of polepieces so that only one set of adjustment screws is accessible, then mount in a Hi-lo'Tron cover; FYI I did this on my '64 when the original PU's went south in the late-70's: looks factory, has more grunt than the original HT's, and has its own unique sound in the Gretsch pantheon of tone - now if I can find the time to have the disintegrating binding (a common vintage Gretsch problem) replaced I may just return it to regular circulation...

Hope this helps...

[loco gringo]

Thanks Brian. I appreciate the info.

[loco gringo]

Thanks Steve. Great insight.


I am trading in some guitars, and I have enough trade in that I can get 2 Gretsch guitars if I add a couple hundred $. I will have a 45 day return policy, so I am pretty safe. I wasn't sure about the 5622, but your comments are leading me to probably try it first on the double cut. I think I am going to get a 5420 for a full hollow.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by loco gringo

Thanks Steve...I wasn't sure about the 5622, but your comments are leading me to probably try it first on the double cut. I think I am going to get a 5420 for a full hollow.

Great guitars both, but before taking the plunge I'd strongly recommend giving this near-clone of the iconic '59 6120 serious consideration:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...vintage-orange

If you prefer the post-'62 double-cut version (AKA Nashville) here's another near dead-ringer, for one-third the price of the MIJ Professional Series reissue when it was discontinued a few years back:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...vintage-orange

For the CSNY fans, the E-matic rendition of the '60 White Falcon:

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...lectric-guitar

FYI not every classic Gretsch tone was produced by a hollowbody, and if you're going to spring for a 5622 (which will cover nearly all of those sounds anyway) one of these - which has an exceedingly interesting, if somewhat apocryphal, history (see below) - might be a good addition to your stable:

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...lectric-guitar

Some Gretsch lore and trivia: After her divorce from Les Paul in 1963 (I was fortunate enough to see their last TV appearance as a kid, in 1962) Mary Ford was attempting to jumpstart both a solo career and an endorsement deal of her own with Gretsch. It has been rumored that the short-lived (and now uber-rare) "Princess" pastel-colored solidbodies based on the '63 Corvette platform (vaguely resembling the contemporary - and strong-selling - single-pickup SG/Les Paul Junior, and sold with matching white case and amplifier) were in fact intended to be the first "Mary Ford" instruments, to be joined by similarly-colored Duo-Jet-based "Standards" and a double-cutaway White Penguin-based "Custom" model. Production of the Princess ceased by '64 when the deal fell through - no instruments of this type were ever produced under the Mary Ford designation - and while similarly-colored double-cut Duo-Jet "Standard" prototypes are said to exist - possibly as a single example, almost certainly no more than four or five - as well as her personal double-cut Penguin that was to be the platform for the "Custom," only the Corvette-based Princess "Junior" model saw the light of day. For those who are curious about what might have been the aforementioned FSR Electromatic, in Surf Green with white back/pickguard/trussrod cover and gold Filter'trons/hardware, is probably a 90% accurate representation of what the Mary Ford Standard might have looked like - under Les' tutelage Mary became a formidable guitarist in her own right, and it undoubtedly would have been equipped with some proprietary cutting-edge electronic gadgetry garnered from their time together (which Les himself was extremely reluctant to license for mass production until circa 1970, with the Les Paul Professional/Personal/Triumph Bass models) - and while this recent FSR Limited Edition white Corvette lacks the obligatory gold hardware/pickguard of the '63 Princess, the DNA is unmistakable to any hard-core Gretsch fan:

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...lectric-guitar

To add some fuel to the fire - and credibility to the story - Ken Achard's History and Development of the American Guitar shows a documented prototype of a double-cutaway Les Paul Standard produced circa 1962 by Epiphone, when they were under Gibson management and using the same methods/materials. Les Paul - who had complained long and loud about the SG version that would bear his name until mid-'63 (when he suspended his endorsement deal amid his divorce proceedings) - performed many of his first experiments with solidbody design on Epiphone guitars, and this may have been an attempt to appease him with a more "modern" appearing instrument while still keeping him in the corporate camp; suffice it to say that the body shape is nearly indistinguishable from the contemporary double-cutaway Duo-Jet - the same one that would have been used for the Mary Ford Standard/Custom - and if push came to shove it could have been a very interesting state of affairs...

[loco gringo]

Those are great looking guitars. That vintage orange 5420 with the gold hardware is amazing. The White Falcon looking one was on my radar.

The deed is done. I picked out these two. I have 45 days to return or exchange them. I might have gone with a black 5622 if they had had one in the store. I like the green though, and it plays and sounds great, so I will likely keep it. It was a great way to turn over some gear I wasn't using.

[PTony]

I own a sexy beast black solid center block 5620T-CB. They’re FANTASTIC stage guitars. It is equipped with a Bigsby B-70. Initially it had tuning issues and I ALMOST traded it off. Then I discovered the “Biggs fix”.

In short it moves the string break angle. In essence, it reduces string break and alleviates tuning issues. I absolutely LOVE my solid centerblock Gretsch and would recommend them to anyone...IF....you equip it with the “biggs fix”. He also makes a “super squishy” spring for a few dollars. It is FANTASTIC.

This guitar would’ve been a “move on to the next” guitar barring the “Biggs fix”. It’s a perfect solution to the typical bigsby “tuning” issues.

Take it fwiw. But I’ve played live for over 30 years and can attest that this product will change your mind about Bigsbys. I’ll post the link below. Well worth the $. Not to mention the pickups are simply fantastic. It truly is a fantastic guitar.

https://bricksbiggsfix.com/product/btsv3/

[loco gringo]

Thanks for the tip PTony. I bookmarked that link. If I see issues, I will order it and the spring. I saw where Reverend had a squishy spring, too.

I'm really not a whammy user. I can see that changing once I start getting my Gretsch on, though.

[Beachrunner]

I've got an '08 Gretsch G5120, but didn't care much for the stock "Gretschbuckers" - too muddy for my tastes.. So I put in some GFS Surf 90's - much better!

The Surf 90's give it more of that "DynaSonic" sound.

[rwmct]

This thread ought to be a "sticky." For reference purposes.

[loco gringo]

I ended up returning the 5622 and keeping the 5420. Initially, if I would have guessed that I was going to end up returning one of them, I would have guessed the 5420. After playing them regularly over a period of time through my amps, it was clear that I wanted the 5420. The tuning on the 5622 was less stable, though I could have probably worked through that by putting a new bridge on it and possibly doing some nut work, and maybe I could have upgraded it in other ways to make it more to my liking, but the 5420 clearly called my name, so I wasn't inclined to do it.

I know Guitar Center gets knocked around a lot, but my local store was great to deal with on this. I was very careful with both guitars while I was testing them under the 45 day return policy. It truly was a no hassle deal. You really can't make that kind of evaluation in the show room.