Neck bowed at 14th fret?

[hillin]

So there is something wrong with my Gibson SJ-200: The neck bows.

It's not like a typical truss-rod fixable bow - not to mention the truss rod is pretty much dead, it's been screwed to an end and there is no more adjustable space. However, the neck is quite straight from the first fret to the 14th fret. The problem starts from there, where I can see an angle and the remaining frets does not line up with the first 14 frets, and AFAIK it's not something a truss rod could manage to fix.

I tried to take a photo of this part but the angle seems insignificant on the picture.

The bow caused a very high action and I want to reduce it. An attempt to file down the saddle was failed, with only a little action reduction, I get a fret buzz near the 14th fret.

How can I save this guitar? Would a neck reset help? Thanks for any input!

[DenverSteve]

Without seeing the guitar neck it is nearly impossible to say. First of all, you state you have a truss-rod issue. That should be reparable. I suggest taking the guitar to your repair tech/luthier and have it addressed. To me, anyone with a car should have a mechanic (whether factory or independent), a preferred tire shop and a detailer or preferred car wash. Every homeowner should have a list of trades-people to include ; a roofer, an electrician, a landscaper, a plumber, a carpenter and a general handyman/person. Likewise, every guitar player/owner should have a relationship with a/the person they go to when they have a question about, a problem with or simply need a set up on their guitar(s).

[Bax Burgess]

Not bowed, but angled where the neck meets the body?

[Neil K Walk]

I'm no expert on these things so I often just suggest checking Frank Ford's web site www.frets.com. Here's a page there that may help you:

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth.../buzzlist.html

The 14th fret is pretty much supposed to be a fixed point so the truss rod will have no influence there and lowering the saddle actually made things worse. If the action at the 10th fret was still too high then it sounds like a neck reset is in order.

I'm actually more concerned that the truss rod is no longer adjustable, though. Can you turn it at all? I would give this a try before thinking of going through the reset process:

https://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Onlin...solution_.html

[jonfields45]

High action over the fretboard extension with an angle at the body is not uncommon on newer guitars with an overset neck, which will cure itself over time. If you really require low action over the fretboard extension and the saddle is not too high, then the fretboard extension can be shimmed.

But for the little bit of playing up that high on the neck for most of us, why not stop looking?

[MC5C]

Sounds like it needs a neck reset if the neck is bending up at the 14th fret, which is where the neck joins the body. why it needs a reset is a question you could ask, it's usually obvious if the joint fails and you can see a gap in the heel.

[Howard Klepper]

Your description is exactly that of a guitar that needs a neck reset. If the neck is straight, the truss rod being maxed out is a separate issue and not relevant to the present problem.

Take it to a good tech. Not the setup guy at the Guitar Center.

[hillin]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

Without seeing the guitar neck it is nearly impossible to say. First of all, you state you have a truss-rod issue. That should be reparable. I suggest taking the guitar to your repair tech/luthier and have it addressed. To me, anyone with a car should have a mechanic (whether factory or independent), a preferred tire shop and a detailer or preferred car wash. Every homeowner should have a list of trades-people to include ; a roofer, an electrician, a landscaper, a plumber, a carpenter and a general handyman/person. Likewise, every guitar player/owner should have a relationship with a/the person they go to when they have a question about, a problem with or simply need a set up on their guitar(s).

Thanks Denver. Yeah I have two luthiers in my contacts I can call for help, I just want to make sure that I understand this problem as thoroughly as possible before I meet them. I don't bother them too often as I can handle setup tasks and some minor repairs, but this seems to be a major problem I've never seen before, and a good time to learn something!

Originally Posted by Bax Burgess

Not bowed, but angled where the neck meets the body?

Yeah exactly. I call it bowed because the string action is high enough that it could effectively be used as a bow, just need an arrow.

Originally Posted by Neil K Walk

I'm no expert on these things so I often just suggest checking Frank Ford's web site www.frets.com. Here's a page there that may help you:

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth.../buzzlist.html

The 14th fret is pretty much supposed to be a fixed point so the truss rod will have no influence there and lowering the saddle actually made things worse. If the action at the 10th fret was still too high then it sounds like a neck reset is in order.

I'm actually more concerned that the truss rod is no longer adjustable, though. Can you turn it at all? I would give this a try before thinking of going through the reset process:

https://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Onlin...solution_.html

The truss rod can be turned in only one direction, but not the direction in which I usually straighten up the neck.

Originally Posted by jonfields45

High action over the fretboard extension with an angle at the body is not uncommon on newer guitars with an overset neck, which will cure itself over time. If you really require low action over the fretboard extension and the saddle is not too high, then the fretboard extension can be shimmed.

But for the little bit of playing up that high on the neck for most of us, why not stop looking?

This one is from 2007, so I guess it's mature enough, what's cured is cured.
Yeah my concern is exactly that would a neck reset help on this problem, or do I need to have the extension shimmed, or both...
I do prefer a lower action, not only because I need to play up the frets, but also because the effortlessness to play on a low action guitar is so adorable.

Originally Posted by MC5C

Sounds like it needs a neck reset if the neck is bending up at the 14th fret, which is where the neck joins the body. why it needs a reset is a question you could ask, it's usually obvious if the joint fails and you can see a gap in the heel.

True, the heel seems perfectly intact on this guitar.

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

Your description is exactly that of a guitar that needs a neck reset. If the neck is straight, the truss rod being maxed out is a separate issue and not relevant to the present problem.

Take it to a good tech. Not the setup guy at the Guitar Center.

Yeah Howard, I'll take it to a luthier to see what he can do. Hopefully a neck reset could solve both problems.

[mirwa]

The fretboard extension (area over the guitar top), typically has fallaway built into it, that is this section of the neck slightly angles down in relation to the rest of the neck, its just a minor side issue from manufacturing.

Sometimes the tension applied to the body from the strings, makes the body collapse slightly (fold up) around the waist area of your guitar, this turns your area of foldaway into an upwards ramp and high action.

The work around for the problem is removing the neck, reshaping the heel to a new angle and refitting the neck, not dealing with the collapsed sides but simply living with them.

A good luthier will spot the issue in seconds, well worth a visit

Steve

[John Arnold]

I call it bowed because the string action is high enough that it could effectively be used as a bow, just need an arrow.

It's been done before, and on a J-200, no less. Gary Mule Deer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5f635uNeGU