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#16
11-19-2018, 10:40 AM
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Bois de Rose is a magnificent tonewood - it is a true Rosewood and very reminiscent of Brazilian in terms of tone. It is incredibly rare. I've built with two sets over the years but have been unable to find any more.
Just a quick fyi, my work has inspired a lot of the younger builders that build in the modern style. To be honest, I have been a bit sad to see a lot of my work borrowed without my blessing/permission. I don't like drama and certainly do not wish to start any here but I would like to say that the heel design, back centerstrip, and bevel designs you see in Razo's guitars are designs that originated with me. The heel design and back centerstrip are fairly ubiquitous among new "modern-style" builders as so many have adapted it as their own with some slight modification. The bevel not so much but I'm sure in time, it will be quite common as well. I don't want to derail this thread at all - so let's no do that. But as an artisan who spent years developing a unique design aesthetic - I do feel I need to speak up a bit for myself more. And getting back on track with this thread. That Bois de Rose set is exceptional - I'm sure Razo will turn it into an exceptional guitar !!! Last edited by Simon Fay; 11-19-2018 at 01:58 PM. 
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#17
11-19-2018, 11:12 AM
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The guitars look great.
Last edited by nacluth; 11-19-2018 at 05:14 PM.
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#18
11-19-2018, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
-It's been well documented here on AFG for YEARS...I believe dating back as far as 2013 when this issue over arm bevel issue first arose. Jonathan has always been clear, at least to me, that the arm bevel was based on your design. I've seen both of your bevels in person, and though they "look" similar in pictures, truth is they are designed differently in size and shape of it. I've seen far more similar arm bevels that look like a direct copy of yours in pictures, but i don't see you being up in arms about that?    -Thats just me scrolling through my instagram feed, i can only imagine there are more examples out there using similar designs. -I didn't even want to look into backstrip and heels similar to "your designs" seems like everyone uses some sort of variation of those designs. -First it was the bevel and then it was his OM shaped guitar, in which you claimed that it was a direct copy of your OM, which again was different in size and where the curves of the guitar hit. Seems to me that you've got your own personal agenda to refute anything he does? I dont see michael bashkin throwing subtle shade at not getting credit for your guitar shape? Or Ervin somogyi wanting credit for his heel that "inspired" you? -This is all my personal opinion..so take it as it is. -Bryan
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#19
11-19-2018, 12:48 PM
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Hi Bryan,
Please give me a call -- 386.4449790. I'd really like to speak to you in person, if we can. Thanks, Simon
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#20
11-19-2018, 01:02 PM
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Recent Razos
FWIW the spec sheet I received with my Razo GA does list a "Fay Style bevel" crediting Simon Fay for this design element.
In 2012 when Jonathan was getting started as a builder he mentioned to me that he consulted with and received advice from many other experienced and well regarded builders, including Simon. I think his design sense was informed by those conversations, his observations as well as the development of his own original ideas. Jonathan recently got to play my Fay Model One BRW OM and was impressed with the top notch design and workmanship. But then, who wouldn't be?  I would also add, as Bryan mentioned above, the Razo OM differs in size, shape, depth and sound vs. my Fay Model One. Both are outstanding guitars and favorites in my collection!Having said that allow me to redirect to the OP's topic: Recent Razos. I had the Bois de Rose Razo GA at my house a couple of weeks ago. The owner commissioned that build with a slightly thinner body than the 4.5" at the lower bout that Razo usually uses but still has an impressive full and balanced sound.     I am hoping that the owner of the Bois de Rose GA does post some sound clips so everyone can hear how this one sounds. Last edited by doodahdoug; 11-21-2018 at 07:59 AM.
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#21
11-19-2018, 01:48 PM
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I had a nice talk with Bryan (barcafan) and he informed me that Jonathan has been crediting me for the bevel design, which I'm pleased to hear.
And just to clarify because my first post could easily be interpreted in a way other than I intended. I was not intending to disparage Razo. I wrote that first post quickly and I should have taken time to reread. My bevel design was a pretty unique design as was my heel design and back centerstrip when I introduced them many years ago. My desire was to ensure that folks recognize my role in introducing/designing those particular elements. It's the same reason Linda Manzer requests that builders who borrow her wedge idea, refer to it as a Manzer Wedge or that Kevin Ryan is protective of his "bevel flutes". Thanks, Simon Please Note: Bryan mentioned that he would follow up or amend his post as there were a number of statements made about my character that were inaccurate. To address those, I will say the following: *Hobby builders and what they do is not much of a concern. Professional builders are a different matter. I have contacted a couple individuals and asked that if they do use my designs that they at least credit me. In short, I'm not or never have had it out against Jonathan. On the contrary, early on I spent quite a bit of time giving him guidance over the phone and took an active interest in supporting his building efforts. *Razo's bevel design is based on my design. It may be slightly different in execution but in essence, it is my design. *I have never complained about Razo's body shape. His shape is unique and different from my own. *For the record, my body shape is inspired by the brilliant work of Micheal Bashkin. I think my body shape is uniquely different but nevertheless, before I even introduced it to the guitar playing world, I contacted Micheal and asked if he was comfortable with the similarity and if he wasn't, then I would make further changes. He felt it was noticeably different and gave me his blessing. *My heel design is not inspired by Somogyi. Rather, the inspiration is your standard wide heel (Takamine and a multitude of others), the classical upward swoop as the heel moves towards the rear of the guitar, and the crisp lines of Dan Bresnan's heel. The design was quite unique when I debuted it on my guitars. Last edited by Simon Fay; 11-20-2018 at 05:11 PM.
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#22
11-19-2018, 04:37 PM
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Beautiful workmanship on these guitar's. How is it possible Razo is only on build #25? I thought when he entered the scene several years ago he really took off with quite a few orders.
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#23
11-19-2018, 07:45 PM
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I think it has been a good practice among luthiers to give credit to other luthiers for using a feature that was first created by them. Giving credit in private is one thing but posting that publicly on ones website is the way to go. Many luthiers have failed to do this including experienced and even senior luthiers who should know better - which is not a good thing imho.
Having said that it is understandable when luthiers use features first popularised by other luthiers because it is exceedingly difficult to create a guitar shape and features which are totally unique and distinctive of one's guitars in today's congested guitar market.
__________________
In the end it is about who you love above yourself and what you have stood for and lived for that make the difference...
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#24
11-19-2018, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
__________________
In the end it is about who you love above yourself and what you have stood for and lived for that make the difference...
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#25
11-20-2018, 05:47 AM
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Recent Razos
Quote:
Last edited by doodahdoug; 11-20-2018 at 07:19 AM.
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#26
11-20-2018, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Nice chatting with you yesterday- Sometimes all it takes is 5 minutes to pick up the phone and talk things through to avoid misinterpreting a statement over a forum like this one- Quote:
I am a firm believer that Family and Faith come over everything else-so for me personally I have always supported anyone that needs time to take care of those things that are the most important in life- As a consumer having to wait for a product can be difficult and not for everyone- in a world where instant gratification is so prevalent, it can be hard to accept a delay- but in this case having seen and played Jonathan's more recent builds- I know without a doubt that the wait will have been worth it- Now back to guitar shenanigans- -Bryan
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