To Tab, or not to Tab- That is the question

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by PHJim

A common way of playing fiddle tunes on the banjo uses what's called "Melodic Style". In open G tuning, a G major scale would be played:
_____________0_____4_____
_______0________5________
__0_______5______________
_____7___________________
______________________0__

Dropping to a lower string for a higher note can become confusing when translating from standard notation. Whole tunes are played in this style, never hitting two eighth notes in a row with the same finger or on the same string.

Right!

Similar considerations can apply to guitar, of course, when you want a line where adjacent scale notes ring across one another in the same way. To show that purely in notation can be done, but tab makes it much clearer.

[tbeltrans]

As far as I am concerned, whatever works for a given individual - spend less time worrying about the details of these things and make music the best way you can. I can read standard notation, TAB, or learn by ear. All three are useful in their own ways.

Tony

[mdshax]

I'm just a backyard picker but I've been playing for over 25 years. Once upon a time I could sight read but I just never used it for anything, so that skill has degraded. I use tab and youtube videos to figure out things if I'm unable to figure it out by ear. My only real problem with tab is that it's often wrong--I go back and listen to a recording and I can tell that isn't the pattern being played or there's a note in there someone didn't hear or get right. But it gives me a starting point and then I can refine it on my own.

I don't have much use for opinions of how "real" musicians do anything since many recorded artists did things completely out of the norm and were great. Chet Atkins rested his pinky on the top when playing figerstyle. A ton of great players never learned a single page of music theory or standard notation. Yes, Miles Davis went to Julliard--but I'm not Miles Davis and I won't be going there. I just want to play and enjoy it, which I think is true of most folks. I firmly believe there should be different teaching and learning approaches for different audiences.

[Big Band Guitar]

Tab, auto-tune, capo, training wheels.

None are in themselves all that bad and have some usefulness until we become dependent on them.

[SouthpawJeff]

Well this debate won’t matter much longer because the next generations of guitar players will be learning from plugging their guitars into their PlayStations and learning in a video game experience😏

Seriously though, I can figure out the notes on a page of sheet music in a way akin to deciphering hieroglyphics.... slowly and with effort. I learn by Tab and ear. Tab gets me most of the way but I do agree it comes up short in some respects. That’s where I need to listen and listen and listen to find the right way. I’m not going to ever be a musician, not my goal, I just want to play guitar and don’t need to read music for that😁

Good luck,
Jeff

[ADK]

Originally Posted by sid45

use any method you can to learn, not everyone NEEDS to read music to enjoy an instrument

Agreed. If it works for you, use it.

Originally Posted by JBCROTTY

TAB allowed me to pick the guitar back up as an adult and make faster progress and enjoy the journey.

Same here. After growing bored with strumming chords for many years, I put the guitar away. Tablature gave me a path to return to the guitar from a new perspective. Though I was familiar with standard notation from learning trumpet in grade school, the poly-phonic nature of the guitar requires reading several notes/dots at once -- and I found tabs/numbers to make more sense.

That said, I AM trying to re-teach myself to read notation, if for no other reason than it's a challenge. But my go-to method is and will probably remain TAB.

[Big Band Guitar]

This has helped me a lot to learn after over 50 years of playing. I still spend a couple hours a week with this trainer.

http://www.childrensmusicworkshop.co...l/id82_en.html

[Denny B]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

As far as I am concerned, whatever works for a given individual - spend less time worrying about the details of these things and make music the best way you can. I can read standard notation, TAB, or learn by ear. All three are useful in their own ways.

Tony

Agreed 100%...


If someone here relates what has worked best for them (notation, tab, ear, capo, boutique picks, etc.) no one else holds any lofty position of authority to contradict them because they've done it differently...

I've never tried to play guitar sitting on a high horse, but some folks could give lessons on the technique...

[thechariot1x]

I'll readily admit that I'm not that great of a guitarist (probably intermediate with some of my skills, like my theory lagging a little bit behind others). But I am a doctoral student in clinical neuropsychology, so the video is speaking my language a little bit. So, long story short, I don't buy his argument. He seems to think that you are unable to chunk tablature and you are able to chunk staff music because it's organization into shapes gives it inherent meaning. This simply isn't true, you can chunk literally anything. In fact, in the early research on chunking and working memory, people memorized either a certain number of number or nonsense syllables (du- for example). Any sort of symbolic notation (written language, spoken language, music notation) is devoid of meaning until we learn to associate the symbols with some sort of meaning. To illustrate this consider spoken language: generally there are two types of languages regarding tone: tonal and non-tonal. English is a non-tonal language tone of voice will give you contextual cues about whether the person is making a statement or asking a question and what emotion they are feeling, but it doesn't change the word meaning. In contrast, Mandarin is a tonal language whether you say the word at a high tone or a low tone literally changes the meaning of the word that is spoken.This makes Mandarin a hard language for adult English speakers to learn because they are not used to interpreting tone as part of word meaning (in fact word meaning is typically interpreted with the dominant hemisphere whereas non-verbals are interpreted with the non-dominant hemisphere). Or consider trying to read language written with a different alphabet. point being, nothing has meaning (or is organized into chunks) until our experience does it for us, and we can chunk basically anything. Furthermore, I don't see any reason why an experienced tablature reader can't read ahead (or see patterns of notes for that matter) the same way experienced staff readers do with staff, also, I can personally attest that I do read ahead when reading tab if its not something really complicated for me. In either case what allows you to do this is having learned that this series of dots on a page indicates that you need to perform this learned series of movements to play the notes. Now, I do think that staff is probably better if you can read it fluently because it gives information on rhythm instead of unnecessary (for these people) information on where on the neck to play these notes. However, for people who are not really adept at reading sheet music onto a guitar neck like myself (I took piano and can read music just not well onto a guitar neck) trying to read music is like trying to read without punctuation, it can be done with time but we're not sure where to start or where to stop. Just my own personal opinion.

TLDR version: I think tab is fine and you can chunk Tab the same way that you can sheet music.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by thechariot1x

I'll readily admit that I'm not that great of a guitarist (probably intermediate with some of my skills, like my theory lagging a little bit behind others). But I am a doctoral student in clinical neuropsychology, so the video is speaking my language a little bit. So, long story short, I don't buy his argument. He seems to think that you are unable to chunk tablature and you are able to chunk staff music because it's organization into shapes gives it inherent meaning. This simply isn't true, you can chunk literally anything. In fact, in the early research on chunking and working memory, people memorized either a certain number of number or nonsense syllables (du- for example). Any sort of symbolic notation (written language, spoken language, music notation) is devoid of meaning until we learn to associate the symbols with some sort of meaning. To illustrate this consider spoken language: generally there are two types of languages regarding tone: tonal and non-tonal. English is a non-tonal language tone of voice will give you contextual cues about whether the person is making a statement or asking a question and what emotion they are feeling, but it doesn't change the word meaning. In contrast, Mandarin is a tonal language whether you say the word at a high tone or a low tone literally changes the meaning of the word that is spoken.This makes Mandarin a hard language for adult English speakers to learn because they are not used to interpreting tone as part of word meaning (in fact word meaning is typically interpreted with the dominant hemisphere whereas non-verbals are interpreted with the non-dominant hemisphere). Or consider trying to read language written with a different alphabet. point being, nothing has meaning (or is organized into chunks) until our experience does it for us, and we can chunk basically anything. Furthermore, I don't see any reason why an experienced tablature reader can't read ahead (or see patterns of notes for that matter) the same way experienced staff readers do with staff, also, I can personally attest that I do read ahead when reading tab if its not something really complicated for me. In either case what allows you to do this is having learned that this series of dots on a page indicates that you need to perform this learned series of movements to play the notes. Now, I do think that staff is probably better if you can read it fluently because it gives information on rhythm instead of unnecessary (for these people) information on where on the neck to play these notes. However, for people who are not really adept at reading sheet music onto a guitar neck like myself (I took piano and can read music just not well onto a guitar neck) trying to read music is like trying to read without punctuation, it can be done with time but we're not sure where to start or where to stop. Just my own personal opinion.

TLDR version: I think tab is fine and you can chunk Tab the same way that you can sheet music.

Great points.

I hadn't thought about the issue of sight-reading tab before - i.e. playing directly from it, in real time, without having seen it before. I can well believe that could be as easy (given practice!) as sight-reading notation, IF the tab contained rhythm information (which it can easily do).

The only thing that is really difficult to show in tab is duration. In single note lines that's not too much of a problem - you'd mark the timing (where the note begins relative to the beat), and assume the note lasts until the next one begins. (Or else assume duration is optional.)
But when you have more than one voice - as in fingerstyle guitar - or chords where some notes last and some don't - or where you have differences between staccato and tenuto (sustained) - then tab fails.
Or at least, for it to succeed, it would need a very cluttered staff. (It's quite easy, actually, to use signs indicating sustaining a note across other notes, but there is no actual convention for that, AFAIK.)

And above all this, tab still lacks one prime advantage of notation: the latter provides a visual analogue of melodic shape.

That doesn't spoil your argument about learning, or sight-reading, which is still valid. With tab, you're thinking note placement on the instrument (and timing if shown). The issue of pitch and interval sounds are not part of it - and for learning to play a piece, they don't have to be! After all, a player piano, or a computer, can play a piece accurately if fed information about how to produce the notes. Advance knowledge of how it will sound is superfluous. The latter is just a luxury that literate musicians like to enjoy.

[Cameron_Talley]

Honestly, I'd prefer to have both, with the music score on the top and the tab on the bottom. I can read music (piano and trumpet) just fine, but I have difficulty translating that to the guitar just because of the sheer possibilities of what note is on what string. The same note on the page can be played in several different ways on a guitar (unlike a piano), so it's nice to have the tab to help with finger position, etc.

[rick-slo]

I have always sight read tab as I have standard notation. What are you doing if you are not sight reading it? As far a melodic line I usually have heard the piece first, liked it, and then looked at a tab if I thought it would be helpful.

Various unknown music tabs have usually be some sort of Travis or syncopation. Figure out the first couple of measures and you are set to go.

[rwmct]

Thank God for Tab. If I had to play off of standard notation, I would not play.

[PHJim]

Originally Posted by JonPR

Great points.

I hadn't thought about the issue of sight-reading tab before - i.e. playing directly from it, in real time, without having seen it before. I can well believe that could be as easy (given practice!) as sight-reading notation, IF the tab contained rhythm information (which it can easily do).

The only thing that is really difficult to show in tab is duration. In single note lines that's not too much of a problem - you'd mark the timing (where the note begins relative to the beat), and assume the note lasts until the next one begins. (Or else assume duration is optional.)
But when you have more than one voice - as in fingerstyle guitar - or chords where some notes last and some don't - or where you have differences between staccato and tenuto (sustained) - then tab fails.
Or at least, for it to succeed, it would need a very cluttered staff. (It's quite easy, actually, to use signs indicating sustaining a note across other notes, but there is no actual convention for that, AFAIK.)

And above all this, tab still lacks one prime advantage of notation: the latter provides a visual analogue of melodic shape.

That doesn't spoil your argument about learning, or sight-reading, which is still valid. With tab, you're thinking note placement on the instrument (and timing if shown). The issue of pitch and interval sounds are not part of it - and for learning to play a piece, they don't have to be! After all, a player piano, or a computer, can play a piece accurately if fed information about how to produce the notes. Advance knowledge of how it will sound is superfluous. The latter is just a luxury that literate musicians like to enjoy.

I, and many others, use the same symbols for timing and duration as is used in standard notation. A quarter note would have a single tail, an eighth would have a tail with a flag, a sixteenth. . . triplets are indicated just as in standard notation, a half note would have a circle around the number, a dotted half would have a dot after it, a whole note would hve no tail, just a circle around the number. Rests are indicated in tab the same way as in standard notation.

Unfortunately, much tab on the internet is written without proper timimg indicated.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by PHJim

I, and many others, use the same symbols for timing and duration as is used in standard notation. A quarter note would have a single tail, an eighth would have a tail with a flag, a sixteenth. . . triplets are indicated just as in standard notation, a half note would have a circle around the number, a dotted half would have a dot after it, a whole note would hve no tail, just a circle around the number. Rests are indicated in tab the same way as in standard notation.

OK, but the obvious disadvantage there - for any normal guitar tab reader - is you have to understand that much about staff notation symbols in the first place.
So - one might argue - if you knew all that you'd have little trouble reading staff notation anyway.

I.e., it's partly all those blobs, dots, and lines that baffles the non-reader. If you can learn what those mean, then notation holds no terrors. You might still want tab to tell you where to put your fingers, of course.

Originally Posted by PHJim

Unfortunately, much tab on the internet is written without proper timimg indicated.

Of course, because basic tab can be prepared using normal text. No special symbols required.

There is still a good way of showing timing on text-based tab, which a fellow transcriber of Bert Jansch's music uses:
https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab...jo_tabs_150395
That could be played successfully without having heard it before, and without needing staff notation.