The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 06-10-2018, 03:48 PM
AlfredFelix AlfredFelix is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 99
Default Focusrite Pres effect on acoustic sound? (LR Baggs Anthem)

So guys, I'm new to this recording stuff, especially within a DAW setup, and I've noticed the following when recording & playing:

Fantastic sound = Martin DM w/ LR Baggs Anthem -> Roland AC60 amp
Fantastic sound = Martin DM w/ LR Baggs Anthem -> Boss BR600
Mediocre/not so great sound = Martin DM w/ LR Baggs Anthem (with or without a Baggs Venue DI) -> Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 - > Cockos Reaper

It's kinda as if the sound falls apart when sending it to the DAW. It is less natural and far more synthetically electric.

Do you think the Boss/Roland products are doing something to the sound? The amp has a preamp, but idk/I don't think the br600's hi-z guitar input is anything special...

I'm more inclined to wonder, is the Focusrite preamp ruining the sound of the pickup somehow? If I got a larger Scarlett interface model and used the 1/4 inputs located on the back that supposedly don't have preamps, would I then get the same sound as using the Roland products? I don't want to unnecessarily waste money on a new interface if my thoughts on this potential problem are way off base. That's why I'm seeking advice from those if you with much more experience and wisdom than I. Thank you in advance for any input!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-10-2018, 06:33 PM
runamuck runamuck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,275
Default

The Focusrite is not degrading the sound - that is unless it's defective.. I'd guess it's either how you're connected to it (line in, right?), something you're doing not quite right in Reaper or something in playback.

Are you playing back through the same monitors or headphones from the Boss as you are the Focusrite?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-10-2018, 08:08 PM
AlfredFelix AlfredFelix is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 99
Default

Thanks for the response runamuck.

Ive tried it through the baggs venue both line input and instrument input and I've plugged the guitar straight into the interface on both the line and instrument inputs. All provide nearly identical results except for volume level.

I do use the same monitors on both. I am trying to learn the whole daw thing, so I don't use the Boss BR600 multitrack recorder much. As such, if I use it, I just plug the monitors into it instead.

Are their certain settings in a daw that will mess up a sound on it's way in? Like maybe buffer size or something? Microphones still seem to sound normal or at least I can't tell anything is off with them.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-10-2018, 08:48 PM
DupleMeter DupleMeter is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,751
Default

It's likely an impedance mismatch with the Focusrite. You may need to use a DI to match the expected impedance of the Focusrite.

Easiest way to check is to see what the output impedance is of the Anthem and then see what the input impedance is on the different inputs of the Scarlett. If they're too far apart you need to bring them closer together.

HTH
__________________
-Steve

1927 Martin 00-21
1986 Fender Strat
1987 Ibanez RG560
1988 Fender Fretless J Bass
1991 Washburn HB-35s
1995 Taylor 812ce
1996 Taylor 510c (custom)
1996 Taylor 422-R (Limited Edition)
1997 Taylor 810-WMB (Limited Edition)
1998 Taylor 912c (Custom)
2019 Fender Tele
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-11-2018, 08:31 PM
AlfredFelix AlfredFelix is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 99
Default

Thanks for the reply DupleMeter,

The Anthem's output impedance is 650 Ohms according to what I could find online.

The Venue is DI Out = 200 Ohm and the line out = 600 Ohm

I can't find any info on the impedance for the Scarlett 2i4 interface online anywhere.

I will try to get some recordings this week and see if I can fix it or if not I'll post a sound sample to show the differences.


I greatly appreciate all the help and advice thus far!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-11-2018, 09:16 PM
ChuckS's Avatar
ChuckS ChuckS is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 3,644
Default

For the Focusrist 2i4, the mic input impedance is 3K ohm, the line input impedance is 52K ohm, and the instrument input impedance is 1M ohm. You shouldn't be having an impedance issue. Feeding either your Anthem or your Venue into the line input of the 2i4 would probably be best, feeding either into the mic input could be ok as long as the gain of the Anthem or Venue is not too high. I wouldn't suggest feeding the Anthem or the Venue into 2i4 instrument input, but even that shouldn't cause the problem you are describing.

In comparison to the 2i4, your Roland amp could definitely be adding color to your tone. The 2i4 could simply be providing a cleaner version of your Anthem pickup.

I wouldn't expect the Boss to be adding much color, unless you are using its effects.. But again, the 2i4 may simply be much cleaner.

So, maybe you simply don't like your pickup going through a clean preamp.

Something to check could be your levels out of the 2i4. What are your typical and peak levels coming into your DAW and well as the typical and peak levels of your recordings?
__________________
Chuck

2012 Carruth 12-fret 000 in Pernambuco and Adi
2010 Poling Sierra in Cuban Mahogany and Lutz
2015 Posch 13-fret 00 in Indian Rosewood and Adi

Last edited by ChuckS; 06-11-2018 at 10:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-11-2018, 11:28 PM
runamuck runamuck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,275
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfredFelix View Post
Are their certain settings in a daw that will mess up a sound on it's way in? Like maybe buffer size or something? Microphones still seem to sound normal or at least I can't tell anything is off with them.
Yeah, you can mess up a sound on its way in the signal is WAY too hot. But that's not the problem here, I'm pretty sure.

I'm thinking now that the sound you like and are familiar with has a whole lot to do with what's coming out of the Roland amp.

Is that possible?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-12-2018, 06:54 AM
KevWind's Avatar
KevWind KevWind is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Edge of Wilderness Wyoming
Posts: 19,881
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by runamuck View Post
Yeah, you can mess up a sound on its way in the signal is WAY too hot. But that's not the problem here, I'm pretty sure.

I'm thinking now that the sound you like and are familiar with has a whole lot to do with what's coming out of the Roland amp.

Is that possible?
I was wondering the same thing (unless there is something actually defective in the Focusrite input or some strange impedance mismatch )

There is often a fair amount of difference between hearing your playing coming through live performance gear and recording gear. Often that difference is the fact that the recording gear is much more revealing and more of a " what you see is what you get" situation and can be a bit shocking at first.
Both the Focusrite and the Reaper/DAW (with the correct gain staging ) should be playing back very very close to what is actually coming off the pic up.
Then also the fact that "louder always sounds better" means the first thing that is absolutely necessary to really get a notion of how the sound actually compares, is to get the levels equal. Only then will any possible actual "quality of sound" difference become accurate
__________________
Enjoy the Journey.... Kev...

KevWind at Soundcloud

KevWind at YouYube
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD

System :
Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1

Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Ventura 12.2.1

Last edited by KevWind; 06-12-2018 at 07:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-12-2018, 08:49 PM
AlfredFelix AlfredFelix is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 99
Default

ChuckS,

Im thinking you, and the others for that matter, are probably right. It's honestly probably just being used to less clean recordings. I may just be wishing for something unreal... I will try to check peak levels, but I don't think I'm overloading the input. I've tried various levels including fairly quiet levels.

Runamuck & KevWind,

Yeah, the Roland amp is definitely what I am most used to hearing. I've seen YouTube videos of a guy get very similar tones to my amp out of his Bose L1 tower. I guess between that, my Roland AC60 itself, and the Boss BR600 I was thinking it would or could be similar recording through the Focusrite too.
Also, I have lowered amp levels to be the same for fair monitoring comparisons.

Mostly though, thank you guys very much for all the advice and help. It is super much appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-12-2018, 10:54 PM
runamuck runamuck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,275
Default

You could always mic your Roland amp.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:56 AM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 9,879
Default

Have you considered just using a mic, not a pickup/amp, etc? Pickups never sound particularly good for recording. Running thru an amp first probably smooths out some of the quack and pickup sound, while going direct thru the Focusrite is just letting you hear what the raw pickup really sounds like. Put a mic on the guitar, no pickup, and you'll be in a whole different category of sound quality.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-13-2018, 12:03 PM
DukeX DukeX is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,460
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Have you considered just using a mic, not a pickup/amp, etc? Pickups never sound particularly good for recording. Running thru an amp first probably smooths out some of the quack and pickup sound, while going direct thru the Focusrite is just letting you hear what the raw pickup really sounds like. Put a mic on the guitar, no pickup, and you'll be in a whole different category of sound quality.
This is the answer.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-15-2018, 07:35 PM
AlfredFelix AlfredFelix is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 99
Default

Doug Young & DukeX,

I have considered it, and that is my next step. I was hoping to do some work with an ehx freeze pedal & delay. As such, a direct sound would be nice, but also just doesn't seem to be working out well.
I've got a cheap MXL 990/991 set, so I'll start there and move on as needed.

All of the advice and patience with my ignorance is greatly appreciated!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-15-2018, 07:53 PM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 9,879
Default

It's hard to record a good acoustic sound while using real-time effects. You're really playing an electric guitar once you're doing that sort of thing, so the pickup sound is maybe part of the package.

But if you want a real acoustic sound, I can think of 3 options - 1, do that sort of thing in post, instead of capturing it live, 2, use some preamp where you can use a mic, but that allows you to insert effect pedals into the process (The Apogee Ensemble that I use would allow this), 3, check out ToneDexter, which will get you 95% of the way to a real mic sound via the pickup.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Tags
focusrite scarlett, lr baggs anthem, recording

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=