Boomering III Question and Pigtronix Infinity Comparisons

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by Kalani

I think it's still quantized on the RC-50 because the loops and drums are still in sync. For example, I can't get my DittoX2 in perfect sync with an external drum machine like the Beatbuddy because there's no midi on the X2---they'll slowly drift off timing. But the individual loops tracks will remain in sync with each other on the RC-50 (without hiccups). So even though they're operating independently, they're still linked together timing wise.

Ah. Ok. Thanks for that info.

I sent an email to Pigtronix to see if I'm missing something with the Infinity Looper.

What I'd like to be able to do is record a percussion part on loop 1 by tapping on my guitar, hitting the muted strings, etc.

Then switch to loop 2 and record a guitar part that I would start and stop at different points throughout the song. Let's say just on the chorus.

I would then like the option of starting and stopping those loops individually AND together. With the Infinity, so far it seems like I can start and stop them individually in the "arm" mode OR start and stop them both in the "all" mode. I need to change that OR to an AND!

It seems silly to have two looping channels and then be limited to one or the other. I must be missing something.

I also got an email back from Boomerang! They said the Boomerang III and the Side Car should be available by the end of January!

Matt

[Kalani]

On the RC-50, you can sync all 3 together and stop them all at once by stopping any of the 3. Or you can unsync them and stop them individually.

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by Kalani

On the RC-50, you can sync all 3 together and stop them all at once by stopping any of the 3. Or you can unsync them and stop them individually.

I think the Boss (RC300) would give me the most flexibility. I talked to someone at Boss and the auto quantize feature is turn-off-able. So I could use it or not.

I also exchanged some emails with Pigtronix. Their customer service is great!

Basically I can't quite do everything I want with the Pigtronix. I am locked into either "All" or "Arm."

All lets me record two loops and then start and stop them all at once. Arm lets me record two loops and start and stop them individually. I can stop them both at once by double clicking the stop button but I cannot restart them both at the same time. I can only start the loop that is "armed" and then jump over and arm the other loop and then start that.

One thing I did learn about the Infinity Looper is that I can create presets. So I could have one preset set to "All" and another one set to "Arm" and then use one or the other depending on the song. I'm not quite sure I could work the little preset knob with my toe so I would have to bend over and make that adjustment. Not ideal in a live setting.

So I think I'm going to return the Infinity Looper and give the RC300 a try.

Thanks for all the help!
Matt

[janmulder]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

What I'd like to be able to do is record a percussion part on loop 1 by tapping on my guitar, hitting the muted strings, etc.

Then switch to loop 2 and record a guitar part that I would start and stop at different points throughout the song. Let's say just on the chorus.

I would then like the option of starting and stopping those loops individually AND together. With the Infinity, so far it seems like I can start and stop them individually in the "arm" mode OR start and stop them both in the "all" mode. I need to change that OR to an AND!

It seems silly to have two looping channels and then be limited to one or the other. I must be missing something.

It seems silly because it is silly.

This is what many (if not most) us want out of our 2 channel loopers. I can't understand why most looper pedal makers don't get this. Being able to stop loops (individually or together) easily is fundamental to live looping. Not being able to stop loops properly with one stomp is the single biggest complaint you hear people have about many of the looper pedals out there... aren't any pf the designers listening?!

I have quite a few loopers at home and I often wonder if any of the designers has ever tried looping on stage

My TC Ditto X4 comes sooo close but if the loops are synced you still need a double stop to stop everything at once. With four buttons you'd think they could make one be a dedicated stop button. The 4th button can be 'programmed' to various things like suddenly reverse the loop, give some tape effect, double speed etc etc ... BUT NO STOP. ... as all these strange effects are supposedly more useful than being able to stop a loop.

The Boss RC300 does appear to do the things we expect of a multi loop looper but it's just so big.

(Sorry for the rant )

[AcouStickistNS]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

I think the Boss (RC300) would give me the most flexibility. I talked to someone at Boss and the auto quantize feature is turn-off-able. So I could use it or not.

I also exchanged some emails with Pigtronix. Their customer service is great!

Basically I can't quite do everything I want with the Pigtronix. I am locked into either "All" or "Arm."

All lets me record two loops and then start and stop them all at once. Arm lets me record two loops and start and stop them individually. I can stop them both at once by double clicking the stop button but I cannot restart them both at the same time. I can only start the loop that is "armed" and then jump over and arm the other loop and then start that.

One thing I did learn about the Infinity Looper is that I can create presets. So I could have one preset set to "All" and another one set to "Arm" and then use one or the other depending on the song. I'm not quite sure I could work the little preset knob with my toe so I would have to bend over and make that adjustment. Not ideal in a live setting.

So I think I'm going to return the Infinity Looper and give the RC300 a try.

Thanks for all the help!
Matt

Did you happen to check out what the Soft Step would do: https://pigtronix.com/infinity/

Sorry, can't quite copy the link, but it is shown here on Pigtronix website.

I know a couple of guys with a Soft Step, they love these things.

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by AcouStickistNS

Did you happen to check out what the Soft Step would do: https://pigtronix.com/infinity/

Sorry, can't quite copy the link, but it is shown here on Pigtronix website.

I know a couple of guys with a Soft Step, they love these things.

That does look pretty cool! Thank you for the info!

I did talk last night with my Sweetwater rep a bit about going the route of a midi controller combined with the Infinity. I came to the conclusion that I would rather have the buttons labeled and right in front of me. I have no experience with midi.

This whole looper thing has gotten a bit out of a control! I wasn't ever planning on using this live. At least not until it became second nature. My original goal was to get something that made practicing more fun and would help me improve my lead guitar playing. I also wanted something the kids could fool around with. Loop their keyboards, a vocal mic, etc.

Then after trying a couple of more basic loopers I came up with some ideas that I wanted to try. That is when I ran into some of the limitations of many of the loopers.

The Infinity Looper plus the Pigtronix Reverse/Undo switch is pretty expensive. I would still need to mount both of these on a pedal board (which I don't have) and then if I added a midi controller I would have WAY more into the Pigtronix than the RC300. And I would have to learn how to program the midi device.

I do know that the RC300 will have a bit of a learning curve too but I really like having separate play/record and stop buttons for each channel and a dedicated all start/stop button so at least I can focus my learning on improving my timing and getting into the guts of the unit vs. dancing between buttons.

Originally Posted by Dakedi

It seems silly because it is silly.

This is what many (if not most) us want out of our 2 channel loopers. I can't understand why most looper pedal makers don't get this. Being able to stop loops (individually or together) easily is fundamental to live looping. Not being able to stop loops properly with one stomp is the single biggest complaint you hear people have about many of the looper pedals out there... aren't any pf the designers listening?!

I have quite a few loopers at home and I often wonder if any of the designers has ever tried looping on stage

My TC Ditto X4 comes sooo close but if the loops are synced you still need a double stop to stop everything at once. With four buttons you'd think they could make one be a dedicated stop button. The 4th button can be 'programmed' to various things like suddenly reverse the loop, give some tape effect, double speed etc etc ... BUT NO STOP. ... as all these strange effects are supposedly more useful than being able to stop a loop.

The Boss RC300 does appear to do the things we expect of a multi loop looper but it's just so big.

(Sorry for the rant )

I love the rant!

I'm glad I'm not alone on this. I have owned some loopers over the years and always given up on them. This time I'm committed!

I get the feeling that many of these companies are trying to pack as many features as possible into something that is still fairly small. In theory, that sounds good but when there's so much double clicking, holding different buttons, trying to touch or roll knobs with a toe (or adding an external controller) to access these features, they aren't really features.

I guess the features are to those who want to jump through the hoops to access them but some of that hoop jumping seems necessary to do things that to me, are pretty basic.

So I guess with my decision I've decided that I would rather have more buttons laid out right in front of me than to have something more compact that requires a lot of screwing around.

Thanks for all the help and advice!
Matt

[janmulder]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

I get the feeling that many of these companies are trying to pack as many features as possible into something that is still fairly small. In theory, that sounds good but when there's so much double clicking, holding different buttons, trying to touch or roll knobs with a toe (or adding an external controller) to access these features, they aren't really features.

It's fine to add features ... the more the merrier ... but not at the cost of the basic functions. Those basic functions are RECORD, START and ... erm ... let me think ... oh yes ... STOP! Everthing surely should be secondary to these 3 basics.

I can imagine the R&D department thinking up the new looper pedal in some of these companies ... their brightest spark puts his hand up and suggests a second button. WOW ... that’s a good idea ... give him a pay rise. Then they sit down again to think what they can do with this new button. "Doh ... no idea" ... "lets just copy what the others have done!" And so it goes, on and on and on with every new looper pedal. It would funny if it wasn't so sad

[janmulder]

Just a quick update to and old thread ...

In the end (after trying a mountain of loopers including the Pigtronix and EHX) I waited for the Boomerang. I haven't looked back. If you do live looping only (and don't want to save loops) then this looper is just great. The list of things you can do with this looper that you can't with most of the others mentioned is too big to mention but for me the biggest difference between the Rang III and the others is the ease of playability. There is no tap dancing or bending down to switch something on/off needed nor restrictions to having a layer be exactly the same length as an existing loop. Plus the switches are super reliable in use.

Simply looking at the list of features compared to other loopers doesn't do it justice. This looper is not about winning a marketing game of feature list comparison. It's just about the ability of live looping ... AND A STOP BUTTON!!!

Matt, did you end up keeping the Pigtronix or did you get a Rang III in the end?

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by janmulder

Matt, did you end up keeping the Pigtronix or did you get a Rang III in the end?

I sent back the Pigtronix and tried the big Boss RC-300 for a little while. That let me have all of the different buttons I wanted but (as I've done before) decided I'm just not a looper and sold it.

Matt

[janmulder]

That's a shame. I tried the Boss as well. On paper (and from pictures) it looks like it has everything ... and it almost does ... but it also wasn't for me. Too many options and parameters (even before you even start to loop) killed my musical spontaneity.

In meantime, while I didn't have a Rang III, I got a T-Rex Image Looper. This is a small, simple looper with only a record and stop button and a volume knob (a bit like the TC Ditto X2 with better audio). Nothing more ... but excellent audio quality which I missed from the Boss and also the TC Ditto X4.

I think the simplicity of only being able to live loop (no saving, nomodes and no paramaters) and having simple functional switches (no double taps etc.) and the loop sounding identical to the non looped sound made me use it more and more.

https://www.t-rex-effects.com/image-looper

Really, I could have just stuck with that but I just couldn't resist when the Rang III became available ... and I'm glad I did because it's just so easy and fun to use.