ToneDexter test drive - demo

[Wengr]

It occurs to me that the tone from my strings changes quite a bit over their life. They sound quite different when I finally replace them as opposed to what they sounded like when new.
So, If TD calculates and stores the difference between the pickup and the training mic, does the sound get funky as the strings age and the pickup output is not the same as it was for the training? Will there be a need to change strings earlier? Or if you are running TD near 100%, does it allow you to put of string changes even longer?
Or does it not really matter?

[philjs]

Originally Posted by Wengr

It occurs to me that the tone from my strings changes quite a bit over their life. They sound quite different when I finally replace them as opposed to what they sounded like when new.
So, If TD calculates and stores the difference between the pickup and the training mic, does the sound get funky as the strings age and the pickup output is not the same as it was for the training? Will there be a need to change strings earlier? Or if you are running TD near 100%, does it allow you to put of string changes even longer?
Or does it not really matter?

It's an interesting question (James?) but I don't think it would affect how often I change strings! I like "almost new" strings on my guitars...from the day after changing them (about an hour or two of play) until well before they, as you put it, "get funky." That might be one week, two weeks or a month depending on the amount of rehearsal time, number of gigs, recording dates/times, etc. In any case, I play and practice acoustically far more than I play amplified so the sound of the guitar is important to me.

That being said, the question then becomes "when you're plugged in NOW (before ToneDexter) and the strings get old does your amplified tone change?" In other words, how much effect does the age of the strings have on the sound of your pickup. If you're using only the pickup then probably not as much as if you're using a mic or some dual source setup where the sound of the guitar, and the age of the string, is more important.

I expect that the more critical aspect of training the ToneDexter (mine's on order so I haven't any direct experience yet) is WHEN you choose to do the IR training. It seems to me that how old your strings are will have more of an effect on the end product than microphone type, given that you're using any reasonably decent small-diaphragm condenser. So, I'll be doing my training in that 3 to 10 hour window after putting new strings on because that's when my guitars sound best.

Phil

[Wengr]

Originally Posted by philjs

It's an interesting question (James?) but I don't think it would affect how often I change strings! I like "almost new" strings on my guitars...from the day after changing them (about an hour or two of play) until well before they, as you put it, "get funky." That might be one week, two weeks or a month depending on the amount of rehearsal time, number of gigs, recording dates/times, etc. In any case, I play and practice acoustically far more than I play amplified so the sound of the guitar is important to me.

That being said, the question then becomes "when you're plugged in NOW (before ToneDexter) and the strings get old does your amplified tone change?" In other words, how much effect does the age of the strings have on the sound of your pickup. If you're using only the pickup then probably not as much as if you're using a mic or some dual source setup where the sound of the guitar, and the age of the string, is more important.

I expect that the more critical aspect of training the ToneDexter (mine's on order so I haven't any direct experience yet) is WHEN you choose to do the IR training. It seems to me that how old your strings are will have more of an effect on the end product than microphone type, given that you're using any reasonably decent small-diaphragm condenser. So, I'll be doing my training in that 3 to 10 hour window after putting new strings on because that's when my guitars sound best.

Phil

Agreed.
Also I wonder, If I trained with 80/20's, and I've swapped them for phosphor bronze, will I need to retrain?

[James May]

For all intents and purposes, the condition of your strings when you train your ToneDexter doesn't matter. The end result will be virtually the same. This is because what it is learning is the characteristics of the instrument as hear by the mic in position.

The string condition is common to both the pickup signal and the the mic signal and therefore washes out of the equation. It's the same reason that you can play with a pick or with your fingers during training and get the same result.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by James May

For all intents and purposes, the condition of your strings when you train your ToneDexter doesn't matter. The end result will be virtually the same. This is because what it is learning is the characteristics of the instrument as hear by the mic in position.

The string condition is common to both the pickup signal and the the mic signal and therefore washes out of the equation. It's the same reason that you can play with a pick or with your fingers during training and get the same result.

James, have you tried the ToneDexter with a Takamine guitar and its Palathetic pickup?

[James May]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

James, have you tried the ToneDexter with a Takamine guitar and its Palathetic pickup?

Yes, works great with Palathetic pickups in Takamine.

[James May]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

James,

Have you actually tried using ToneDexter with a passive Element tranducer?

I tried to preamp a passive DTAR Wavelength transducer (reportedly the same transducer, supplied by LR Baggs) once and found the results to be extremely trebly. I tried several different preamps, including two with input impedances of 10 Mohms. Rick Turner (co-founder of DTAR) told me that the passive Wavelength transducer requires an input impedance "in the neighborhood of" 100 Mohms to provide a balanced tone.

I have not tried a passive Element transducer. I just got a confirmation from Baggs that it is indeed then film piezo type, but only available with a preamp, either the EAS or VTC. The VTC has issues with TD due to the compressor. The EAS should work fine.

I may be wrong, but I would think that passively it would be about the same as the coaxial type piezo elements, which have quite high impedance and still work fine with TD. But if it is very different than that, there may be weak bass as you report with the DTAR.

If anyone has one and can measure the capacitance of just the transducer, that will answer the question. I suppose we'll get one here eventually to look at.