#16
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I am mainly an acoustic player but got my first tube amp for my hybrid. Got a Mesa Boogie TA15. Very small and switchable wattage down to 5 watts. It is amazing on the electric side. You make me want to try it on the acoustic as well will try this weekend. Tubes are the way to go on electric used pedals and modelers all my life. Wow are the tubes a step up.
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Steve 2020 McKnight Grand Recording - Cedar Top 2005 McKnight SS Dred 2001 Michael Keller Koa Baby 2014 Godin Inuk 2012 Deering B6 Openback Banjo 2012 Emerald Acoustic Doubleneck 2012 Rainsong JM1000 Black Ice 2009 Wechter Pathmaker 9600 LTD 1982 Yairi D-87 Doubleneck 1987 Ovation Collectors 1993 Ovation Collectors 1967 J-45 Gibson 1974 20th Annivers. Les Paul Custom |
#17
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The Loudbox 100 is amazing and I had one for like 5-6 years, but i just traded it in for a Bose L1 Compact for it's versatility and sonic capability. If I had to choose an amp (the L1 Compact is technically a PA) for my Taylor, it would definitely be a Fishman Loudbox.
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--- 2011 Taylor 716ce 2005 Fender Mexi J-Bass 1980 Yamaha Classical Find me on YouTube. |
#18
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When I jumped back into Flamenco 6 years ago, or so, I re-entered the search for a decent (nylon string) acoustic sound. I went through a very frustrating, time consuming, and expensive process trying to get the right combination - if the pickups were bad, I tried to change the preamp, EQ, and applied extensive modelers, both hardware and software to the sound.
My take on it is that tubes can color the sound (to absurdity), as can modelers or effects, but the most important aspect for plugged in acoustic sound is the pickup (and its installation in the guitar), followed by the preamp, and then the amplifier, which should be as transparent and clear as possible before jumping into tube color (or effects like reverb). That is, tubes/effects should NOT be used to try to compensate for a unsatisfying basic sound. My final result was to settle on Takamine (TC-132C, TH-5C) with CTP-2 preamp and palathetic pickup with Fishman SA-220 SoloAmp (LR Baggs A-Ref and SR Jam150 are fine as well). I find that I turn the tube completely off in the CTP-2, though - if I want a tube effect I use software or hardware modeler in the effects loop or DAW... There are other solutions that may work for others, but the first goal should be to get the basic sound as absolutely pristine as possible from the guitar, pickup, and preamp - find a FLAT PA or acoustic amp, and work from there. But do NOT use the external devices to try to correct an underwhelming sound - it is not worth the effort. (IMO, even if you don't go the Takamine route, they are a good place to start as points of comparison - but for me, I've never looked back) YMMV, of course, Chuck
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"Flamenco Chuck" http://www.FlamencoChuck.com Me, ca. 1980: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL7wL5m1xIg Jerez Bulerias: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVxUe5hA_yw |
#19
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Review in Acoustic Guitar magazine
Worth checking out when you have a couple of minutes
http://www.acousticguitar.com/articl...rticleid=26824 |
#20
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I SO agree about tubes being a way cool thing for acoustics sometimes. Fallacies already posted here are that tubes distort (they can but don't have to, my McIntosh tube driven preamp and power amp will attest to that), tubes wear out often and cause problems (transistors wear out also and can cause as many problems). I would MUCH rather fix or have fixed a PTP or Turret wired component board with vacuum tubes then pay to replace a PCB mother board.
Most acoustic guitar amps these day are solid state and SO many are SOO good. But, do you think James Taylor or Jackson Browne, Taj Majal (substitute most any of the guys from the early years..) did NOT record through analogue/tube driven preamps......and probably power amps???? Both have GREAT characteristics......and down sides. Quote:
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#21
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Old 1970's Sound City guitar/bass heads have HUGE Partridge transformers and often Mullard tubes, and give such a fat, clean full range signal, up to such volumes, that I've had my acoustic sounding pristine at ear slitting volumes.
They are too big/hefty/delicate to schlepp around for gigging though.
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Rick Yamaha MIJ CJX32 Avalon L32 Avalon A32 Legacy Lowden 022 Gibson J-185 Takamine TNV360sc Cole Clark Fat Lady 3 |
#22
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Gerry, thanks for the informative post about Humphrey amps. They sure look great and I bet they sound beautiful. Sure would be fun to try one out....
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My YouTube Page: http://www.youtube.com/user/ukejon 2014 Pono N30 DC EIR/Spruce crossover 2009 Pono koa parlor (NAMM prototype) 2018 Maton EBG808TEC 2014 Hatcher Greta 13 fret cutaway in EIR/cedar 2017 Hatcher Josie fan fret mahogany 1973 Sigma GCR7 (OM model) rosewood and spruce 2014 Rainsong OM1000N2 ....and about 5 really nice tenor ukuleles at any given moment |
#23
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Quote:
McIntosh claims a total harmonic distortion of 0.5 percent for its 300-watt, MC2301, tube amplifier while rating its 300-watt, MC302, solid state amplifier at 0.005 percent. That is an enormous difference. Just how audible the difference is when the program material is a solo acoustic guitar is a different issue. (McIntosh's tube amps have the lowest distortion I've seen - the Conrad Johnson, $7,500, 250-watt, ET250S amplifier's total harmonic distortion is rated at a whopping 2 percent.) Also, tube performance begins to deteriorate from the moment the equipment is first used at a rate that makes it necessary to make them user replaceable. That is not the case with transistors. While they may eventually fail they are not subject to the steady performance decline of tubes. |
#24
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There is more than ONE type of distortion( harmonic distortion is usually what is listed)....and as such, unless taken with specs of the other distiortions...really doesn't mean much.
Here's a list of a few: harmonic- the ability of the amp to accurately reproduce the harmonic ratios of a signal; ie, the aligning the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd order harmonic in their respective ratios. Critical for tonal accuracy; clipping- this is what our ears usually percieve as "distortion", a fuzzy, though harmonically rich sound that occurs when an amp is being driven too hard. transient- The ability of the amp a reproduce the attack transient, sometimes reffered to as "slew rate". The trick is to listen to the amp and learn to recognize the "distortions" that each has. Basically...just learn to trust your ears. |
#25
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Quote:
Nevertheless, the IM distortion rating of the McIntosh MC2301 tube amp I mentioned is "0.5% maximum, if the instantaneous peak power output does not exceed twice the rated power output for any com- bination of frequencies from 20Hz to 20,000Hz." The rated IM distortion of the solid state McIntosh MC302 solid state amp is "0.005% maximum, if the instantaneous peak power output does not exceed twice the rated power output for any combination of frequencies from 20Hz to 20,000Hz". Amplifiers with a high damping factor will exhibit faster bass transient response and the above tube amp has a damping factor of 15 while the above solid state amp has one of 40. While McIntosh's web site doesn't specify it, typically the slew rate of solid state amps is better than what tube amps can deliver. |
#26
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I really appreciate the education I am getting from Herb Hunter and Dave 251, I have learned alot.
Can you guys, or someone tell me if I am correct about my assertion that much of the '60's and '70's acoustic guitar recordings that so many of us hold dear come from acoustic guitars into tube equipment? I do NOT hear any distortion on the 1st James Taylor album or Joni Mitchell or... |
#27
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Quote:
Last edited by Herb Hunter; 04-12-2011 at 04:44 PM. |
#28
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Not necessarily the case. Audio aficionados value high-fidelity tube systems for accurate audio reproduction. The same factors apply to the amplification of individual acoustic instruments.
Quote:
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#29
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Quote:
McIntosh MC302 Solid State Amplifier $5.500 Power Output:.........................300 watts Total Harmonic Distortion:............0.005 Signal to Noise ratio:................122 dB Dynamic Headroom:.....................1.8 dB Frequency Response (+0,-0.25 dB):.....20 Hz to 20 kHz Frequency Response -3 dB:.............10 Hz to 100 kHz Damping Factor:.......................> 40 Wideband McIntosh MC2301 Tube Amplifier $11,000 Power Output:.........................300 watts Total Harmonic Distortion:............0.5 Signal to Noise ratio:................117 dB Dynamic Headroom:.....................1.2 dB Frequency Response (+0,-0.34 dB):.....20 Hz to 20 kHz Frequency Response (-3 dB):...........10 Hz to 100 kHz Damping Factor:.......................Greater than 15 Last edited by Herb Hunter; 07-09-2012 at 02:49 PM. |
#30
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Quote:
Here's the thing for me. If we take, as an example, ANY current acoustic guitar pickup system (K&K, LR Baggs, Fishman, PUTW, Highlander and the other 2 thousand entries on the market) each and every one of them represents a dramatic departure from what is actually a true acoustic guitar sound. It's just a fact it's no longer "my guitar only louder". That's an empty mantra. In virtually every case the pickup system departs from the actual sound of the guitar. As an extension then to that thought, I have never understood the industry mindset that an acoustic amplifier must gravitate towards being deadly accurate clean. Like a mini PA. That somehow a pleasant sonic footprint from an amp (perhaps with tubes) is a no-no for acoustic guitarist. As if an LR Baggs Anthem is so organic that it must be amplified with the utmost accurate response. You can argue ss specs and cleanliness until the cows come home but why would you want a McIntosh amplifier to amplify your Baggs Element pickup? The result would be piezo bad, but loud and clean. Give me some harmonic content, some hair, some roundness. Something to tame the ills and round the edges of acoustic pickup systems. It doesn't mean distortion or at least distortion in the "electric guitar" sense. I dunno, but for me it's hard to argue all of the current acoustic guitar pickup systems don't need a little (to a lot) of sonic help. I don't want my Fishman piezo to be dead balls accurate and loud. I can't afford a Humphrey but if I could I'd be all over it. This seems like a tremendous leap in live, pickup equipped, acoustic guitar amplification. It also seems like something that could be mic'd to a larger PA if needed. I want one!! Gerry if you ever need someone to run around and demo your amp.......I'm your Huckleberry |