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  #76  
Old 09-14-2022, 03:49 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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Originally Posted by Lucy_Strat View Post
Hope you all enjoy the clip next thing I'm thinking of doing is to add some relief into the neck, it's running 3 thou at the moment checked it before.
Sorry, but I don't hear any effects on tone in your clip that are unequivocably due to the minute changes in action you applied - and I mean effects beyond intonation (raising the action will also raise the pitch slightly, and will theoretically cause the notes at the higher frets to go slightly sharp).

And this is as I expect it to be.

The rule of thumb in guitar set-up is to have the neck as straight and the action as possible to get clean notes at the volume you're looking for. That's undoubtedly the reason archtops have adjustable saddles: to make it possible to whack 'em harder in the bigband settings where they were used (cf. their German name which translates to "beatguitars").

I second Robin in his suggestion for pure nickel-wounds, but I find them a bit too dark to my taste. Sadly string makers do not communicate on the kind of Monel they use: it's an alloy family in which the relative proportions of Ni and Cu can vary quite a bit.

13s: check with Epiphone on what they advise as the maximum gauge/tension to use (apparently you've already been in contact with them). But remember that going too heavy will stiffle the guitar AND make her hard to play - for the fretting hand but also for fingerpicking if that's what you're after. Many archtop players do put on slightly heavier treble strings though, to get a fuller & rounder sound.

Myself I'd love to continue to use at least the low strings of the TI AC112s but I find it too hard to get clean notes from the low E and the trebles in barrés. Those thick bass strings are so heavy that the need to be held down firmly to avoid buzzing *under* your finger and that also applies to a pedal in, say, an F bar chord.
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  #77  
Old 09-14-2022, 05:18 AM
Lucy_Strat Lucy_Strat is offline
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Thanks Robin an RJVB.

It was really noticeable in the room unfortunately my mobile didn't pick it up, it definitely dropped in fullness an volume. I'm assuming partly due to the amount I could attack the strings with the lowering action actually felt quite a drastic difference to. It seemed better at either the higher or the lower of the 3 settings but the tone/volume was definitely better on the higher one. One thing I did notice with the lower action you get more vibration through the neck.

I'll certainly check those pure nickels out think I used those on my Strat at one point. I'm gonna play it at the current action for a few days on the Martin 12-54s. I'm just waiting to hear back from Cleartone on the string tension of the original set that came with the guitar

In pretty happy with how it's playing at the mo tbh now I've backed my fretting hand attack off much better at either of the two actions, next thing I'm gonna research is a pickguard before I wear the front of the guitar. One gutter was SD don't do a lefty version of the Benedetto pickup, so the writing would be upside down + the cable would be exiting on the neck side bit of a shame as I liked that.

Some string guage tensions on the different sets.

Elixir 12-53 nanoweb phospher bronze 162lbs nanoweb based on a 25.5" scale neck

Martin 12-54 Phospher bronze string tension 168.5 lbs

Elixir 13-56 polyweb 80-20
183lbs

Elixir 13-56 nanoweb phospher medium guage 188lbs
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  #78  
Old 09-14-2022, 06:28 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucy_Strat View Post
It was really noticeable in the room unfortunately my mobile didn't pick it up
No offense intended, but if a microphone doesn't pick up a difference, that difference probably exists between your ears (at least for the most part). You changed something thinking/hoping it would have an effect on sound, so you hear one. *)

BTW, given the extent to which you aim to record everything it'd probably be wise to invest in a better recording set-up, one that's more likely to hear your guitar the same way on consecutive sessions (supposing the guitar didn't change), and does not have any of the filters that your phone might apply nor the automatic level control your phone probably has.

*) an f-hole archtop is also very different than a traditional flat-top in how it sounds to the player vs. the listener.
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Pickle: Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator wearing nylguts (China, 2018?)
Toon: Eastman Cabaret JB (China, 2022)
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  #79  
Old 09-14-2022, 07:35 AM
Lucy_Strat Lucy_Strat is offline
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none taken RJVB It's really interesting to learn and if you don't listen you don't learn I know I'm right at the start of my journey with learning about guitars setups and playing,

Just been playing it again hit a note just before I was putting it away put the guitar in the case an she was still ringing away, gonna leave the action where it's at now as it's playing really nice at the lower action long as I don't over hit anything it records the same although the lesser action is more restrictive to how loud it can get in the room.

I was thinking about the action while playing and trying to analyse what was happening before with the action lower it's a much softer touch on the guitar and if I hit the string to hard with my thumb to try get the volume audible that I could with the higher action with the guitar playing clearly hello rattles my old friend. I've played it with a plec an it's a much louder sound compared to the thumb with the lower action but I prefer the mellowness of the thumb.

In the room compared to the phone the natural reverb / fullness is more noticeable to the ear with the higher action whether it's just a different perceived tone to the ear as you say it certainly is there well to my ears anyway dad actually commented on it to when he walked in the room asking if I'd changed something before as he hadn't heard it with the lower action.

I'm assuming its got to affect something other than just the play ability as the break angle of the strings from the tail peice to the bridge is increased or am I totally wrong

I've got really sensitive hearing once was chasing a noise on a a motorcycle before I got the skills I've got now on them a friend who's an ex Suzuki Race tech gave me a 2nd opinion an I was hearing the slight resonance of the brake pads lol was sending me crazy for weeks.

Yep eventually I'd like to get a better recording setup when funds allow it cleared me out getting the guitar tbh. I can hear the phones eq/filter kicking in on the phone levelling it all off like it does when I've recorded stuff on my old gopro on the bikes when I listen back to the clip with some akg's.

The next thing I'd like to do after reading my Benedetto book is make an ebony bridge for it as I'm really not into the peizo with it's plastic saddle I'd love to have a go at woodwork and eventually I'd love to make a guitar.

exciting times

When I've got a better mic setup in the future I'll have to record some sounds at a distance.

For now though I'm pretty content just a pick guard, frequensator (think I've decided on an aftermarket one) an a ebony bridge to make that should be exciting.

Just want to thank you all again for the advice and information really appreciated.

I actually got a humidifier yesterday for the room thanks to dad an that's made a world of difference to how well it seems to be playing today at the 4/64th bass and 3/64th treble action.

Last edited by Lucy_Strat; 09-14-2022 at 07:44 AM.
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  #80  
Old 09-14-2022, 08:55 AM
m_g m_g is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
Depending on whether you're going to install a magnetic pickup or not, either of these should be just what you're after:

https://www.daddario.com/products/gu...osphor-bronze/
https://www.daddario.com/products/gu...l-half-rounds/

You might also consider the Martin Retro Monels, a true roundwound acoustic set with a slinky feel and magnetic properties (phosphor bronze and 80/20 aren't magnetic and really can't be used with the CC pickup you mentioned in prior posts). Until LaBella developed flatwounds circa 1940 these were the string of choice for the first generation of prewar electric guitarists, and will give your guitar some real vintage tonal vibe in both electric and acoustic modes; the only caveat is that you'll need to play them long and hard for the first week or so to break them in, but the good news is that they're very long-lasting and, once they settle in, don't lose their tone - and the additional tension compared to a PB or 80/20 set will drive the top harder for a stronger (and mellower) acoustic tone:

https://www.martinguitar.com/strings...oustic-strings
Interesting. Some people on other boards claim the output is reduced on the wound strings compared to the more usual strings for magnetic pickups, others say there is no difference. I might give them a try.
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  #81  
Old 09-14-2022, 02:28 PM
Lucy_Strat Lucy_Strat is offline
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Glad the thread has been useful for others mg

Thought I'd give it one more update played for about 6 hours before at the lower action then raised it back up to 6/64 and 7/64th much prefer the feel / tone for my thumb playing was pretty instant and noticable perceived difference so gonna stick with those figures I wanna give it a bit of relief next as it's only got about 2 thou in it then I'll reset the action to my fav figures gonna order a frequensator tomorrow as well
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  #82  
Old 09-14-2022, 07:19 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Originally Posted by m_g View Post
...Some people on other boards claim the output is reduced on the wound strings compared to the more usual strings for magnetic pickups, others say there is no difference...
Never tried them myself - and it's probably been at least 50 years since I heard an electric strung with monels, so I have no current basis for comparison - but I've also seen the same conflicting information which, I presume, is based in no small part on the pickup/instrument on which they were used...

Jury's still out on this one...
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  #83  
Old 09-15-2022, 03:35 AM
RJVB RJVB is offline
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It would be interesting to get a real physics explanation of what actually happens in an electromagnetic pickup when you pluck a string. It's not because a metal isn't ferromagnetic that it doesn't interact with magnet(ic field)s. We all know that electricity is produced in copper wire, for instance, and if you drop a magnet on a smooth, inclined sheet of copper it will slide down much slower than it would on a equally smooth and inclined sheet of lead or glass.
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Pickle: Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator wearing nylguts (China, 2018?)
Toon: Eastman Cabaret JB (China, 2022)
Stanley: The Loar LH-650 (China, 2017)
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  #84  
Old 09-16-2022, 11:43 AM
Lucy_Strat Lucy_Strat is offline
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Steve's suggestion of flat top strings was a total win!

Yay total result loving the Flat tops in a 12-53 total result. Reduced string noise so I can slide about in different areas like I would on my Gretsch with flatwound Chrome's on but I'm playing an acoustic archtop win win!! All the effort and trying different things and settings is really starting to pay off in the tone now more of a fundemental note but still lots of dynamics and some overtones although reduced compared to normal round wounds.

Gonna let it sit overnight then check the relief tomorrow
https://youtu.be/vL68NPZ9Vqk

Edit: got a bit of truss rod adjustment done today it's massively cut down on the fret buzz since the clip at the nut end at 0.04" at the moment gonna let it sit then re measure and adjust tomorrow

Last edited by Lucy_Strat; 09-17-2022 at 08:52 AM.
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  #85  
Old 09-20-2022, 12:14 PM
Lucy_Strat Lucy_Strat is offline
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Done a bit more work on the Epi today decided to remove the nut as I wanted to look at the truss rod while I had it off I decided to sand the nut an set the action a bit better, got it to about 1/64th high e and 2/64th bass e.

Got the action at the bridge about 5/64th and 6/64th for now. Which I'll be resetting to 7/64th tomorrow.

The tricky bit was the relief ran out off adjustment on the truss rod trying to put more relief in it got to about 0.06" so its not to bad something to deal with in the future.

Next thing I wanna do is remove the peizo and make a new ebony bridge which will be nice to learn some wood working.

Anyway here's some piccies and a video of how it's playing now with a few days of playing on the flat tops, I'm over fretting a bit tbh as it was the first time with the action to specs at the nut much much faster playing which is nice









https://youtu.be/szlqTYC4AGc

Last edited by Lucy_Strat; 09-20-2022 at 12:45 PM.
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  #86  
Old 12-27-2022, 02:17 PM
Al Mojo Al Mojo is offline
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Happy Holidays! How is your new Epiphone playing after changes?
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  #87  
Old 01-06-2023, 10:44 AM
Lucy_Strat Lucy_Strat is offline
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Hi Rob its really settled in now ^_^ love the tone at some point in the future I wanna add a floating Charlie Christian pickup that'd be so good. For now though used just acousticly its great it's more than good enough for me noodling on the sofa when I don't wanna get the Gretsch an the ToneMaster Deluxe out. My Gretsch G5420TGLH-59 is never out of my hands though out of all my guitars I'd say that's my favourite.

I don't think I'd spend converting an l5 or something like that in the future if Gibson start doing lefties archtops at the custom shop I might explore that but for now more than happy with it as it suits the way I play with my thumb nicely happy new year everyone

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My insta has a few clips of me playing Misty on it that shows if off the best I think its a compromise down to price etc and being a left hander there's not a ton of options its good though.
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  #88  
Old 01-06-2023, 12:53 PM
Al Mojo Al Mojo is offline
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Glad to read this! Speaking of Charlie Christian I was listening to Bruce Forman's record "Reunion" recently where he's playing Barney Kessel's ES-350 Gibson with added CC pickup - wow, beautiful sounds and playing. Hopefully I'll receive my new Tad Brown archtop with CC pickup (hah, I'm no Bruce Forman!) next week. I'll check your Insta post. 👋🏻
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