SoloAmp/BagAmp comparison

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

One of the interesting things (IMO) that has not been discussed much is that with optimal use/placement, the performer is never within arm's reach of the amp, be it Bose, BagAmp, or SoloAmp. This then requires some kind of pedal or front-end gear for even the simplest thing, such as muting to tune, not to mention changing EQ settings, changing effects, plugging in different instruments with different setting, etc.. This kind of requirement (for me) means that whatever amp/PA I am plugging into, I need my front-end gear. The more features packed into the amp itself, 5-8 feet away from where I am sitting/playing, the more money is being spent on features that I *can't* easily use...or will never use!

Yea I gotta agree and for me this is such an obvious scenario I never considered it in the discussion. So much so (and as I've mentioned here before) if I could have my Pre-Amp, EQ and reverb tilted back on a substantial stand and at an easy arms reach I'd be in heaven. I've configured the SoloAmp to be "as flat" as possible and rely then solely on the Solstice for primary eq tweaks. As the night changes, rooms fill up or worse empties out , I gotta quickly adjust eq. Also for my Rare Earth Blend the more the room conditions force me to the PU side the more mid frequencies need to be addressed..usually that means decreased.

Reverb even more critical. EQ on reverb tails makes or breaks reverb in a live scenario. Clanky reverb in a clanky room is just plain awful though I hear from solo and duo acts far too often. The ability to quickly reach down and adjust reverb eq is critical.

The thought of having to do this at the amp itself seems nearly impossible. I absolutely hate standing up, clunking around to adjust things and trying to settle back in.

I've not tried the BagAmp yet but frankly I like Jacks ideas. Hopefully the opportunity presents itself soon.

[BuleriaChk]

Well, then just get an m-10dx, and use the send/return or the aux in on the BagAmp.....

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...l_Digital.html

(I have the m-16dx for my studio (well,ok, my living room), and (for me) the reverb is just great)

IMO, I really like the options available on the SoloAmp - but I usually use a BR-900CD if I need a front end.....
But if I need a performance with local tweakability, AND portability, I'll bring my CM-30 (s) .....
(stacked in a vertical array.......:-)

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by BuleriaChk

Well, then just get an m-10dx, and use the send/return or the aux in on the BagAmp.....

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...l_Digital.html

(I have the m-16dx for my studio (well,ok, my living room), and (for me) the reverb is just great)

IMO, I really like the options available on the SoloAmp - but I usually use a BR-900CD if I need a front end.....
But if I need a performance with local tweakability, AND portability, I'll bring my CM-30 (s) .....

Naw I'm fine with the front end I have Just pointing out the need, and want, to have things at my finger tips and not have to reach or wretch around to adjust at the amp.

Wouldn't trade the eq on the Solstice at this point.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

Yea I gotta agree and for me this is such an obvious scenario I never considered it in the discussion. So much so (and as I've mentioned here before) if I could have my Pre-Amp, EQ and reverb tilted back on a substantial stand and at an easy arms reach I'd be in heaven. I've configured the SoloAmp to be "as flat" as possible and rely then solely on the Solstice for primary eq tweaks. As the night changes, rooms fill up or worse empties out , I gotta quickly adjust eq. Also for my Rare Earth Blend the more the room conditions force me to the PU side the more mid frequencies need to be addressed..usually that means decreased.

Reverb even more critical. EQ on reverb tails makes or breaks reverb in a live scenario. Clanky reverb in a clanky room is just plain awful though I hear from solo and duo acts far too often. The ability to quickly reach down and adjust reverb eq is critical.

The thought of having to do this at the amp itself seems nearly impossible. I absolutely hate standing up, clunking around to adjust things and trying to settle back in.

I've not tried the BagAmp yet but frankly I like Jacks ideas. Hopefully the opportunity presents itself soon.

I have some experience talking about this, since about 1993, when Fishman came out with their "Performer Pro," which had a two-channel "blender" built-in, and an Aux input for a vocal mic. This worked well if you used the amp as a monitor-wedge, but if it was up on a pole, well, all the controls were completely inaccessible.

You always need controls at-hand for solo (no sound-guy/gal) on-stage control/adjustments.

It's another interesting thing, now, to consider the BagAmp mixer that will be coming out. This front-end mini-mixer might be a good solution for many folks. I might use it, but it would still likely be in conjunction with some (or all) of my front-end gear. The benefit of any front-end mixing board is the obvious flexibility that can be had (for two or more channels) beyond the use of independent guitar pre-amps, etc.

Way too late in the game I suggested to Jack that he have NO controls on the BagAmp itself, make the BagAmp-mixer "standard," and have it flexible, with an "on-amp" mounting position for home/arm's-length use, and with a 20' cable for on-stage use.

[BuleriaChk]

Originally Posted by BuleriaChk

Well, then just get an m-10dx, and use the send/return or the aux in on the BagAmp.....

----------------------

I'm being facetious, of course....

That said, I find the EQ and volume control (and tuner) on my Takamine CTP-2 more than sufficient for emergency tweaking on stage. (I always perform plugged-in - I only use a suggestion of reverb, and seldom tweak that more than a couple of times during the evening - but I do want a reverb of acceptable quality ....)

Every performer has his/her unique performance requirements, and even those may change with time. I can certainly see a plain line array with just inputs, assuming the user will provide his own effects (wireless works well also for me; sometimes I use an AKG Guitar Bug)....

To tell the truth, for the local control option, the CM-30's on stands do the job very effectively, and sound great (for me). And the Tak pickup/preamp is so good I really don't need to EQ anything (especially at the low volumes at which I usually play)

But it has taken 50 years of desperate frustration for me to get to this point, and I am delighted with my SoloAmp. And if the basic BA sounds great, I am happy about that as well - I can certainly see where it will work well for some performers....

And if the Line Array (or at least that configuration) is the next thing to come (it probably is), of course all the other players (think Behringer) will be jumping in shortly...

Finally, I should emphasize (strongly) that the real breakthrough (for me) was the Takamine pickup/preamp/guitar combinations - my guitars sound excellent through practically anything now.... (well, ok, except electric guitar amps, but even those OK at clean settings...)

[Foster]

I think Jack is on the right path with the BA. I have both a Bose Classic and the new Bose Compact, neither of which has reverb at all, and in the case of the Compact, a simple 2-band EQ. Bose goes to some length to explain why they left reverb off the units (in a nutshell, reverb is too often used to hide poor sound and/or performance behind artificial aural "space"), and they acknowledge that guitar aficionados will usually have their own front-end processing, anyway. For me, I use my own front-end processing, so the more stripped-down amp configuration makes sense.

The SA will appeal to those who want to just plug-n-play and get great tone, players for whom simplicity is job one. But then, to get an authentic acoustic sound out of any piezo I've heard, life is easier with a modeling processor of some type, and this is an extremely personal choice best left off an amplifier. I mean, Fishman modeling appeals to many, but certainly not all acoustic players, so it makes sense that Fishman skipped modeling when designing their SoloAmp, even though they have the technology sitting there. If Fishman skipped modeling on-amp, who would anyone in their right mind try to include it in a general-purpose line-array amp?

So it comes back to, when designing a small line-array system to fill a specific function, you should devote the R&D to the right components... the right amp coupled to the right speakers, with the basic controls needed to do the job, but leaving room for the artist's tools of choice. Only then can you hit your market goal.

Perhaps one day someone will design the absolutely perfect acoustic guitar amp system with everything you need included, with all the best controls and tools that will play nice with any imaginable acoustic guitar in any imaginable genre in any imaginable venue. Yeah, and someday Detroit will design the perfect car for everybody. I don't see that happening, people (players) are just too diverse.

In the meantime, I wouldn't want to buy a SoloAmp now without first giving a BagAmp a good test drive. Guess I'll stick with my trusty Bose systems until I get that opportunity.

[lpa53]

Just a newbie-non-techie question, but is it the case with both the BA and SA that with the reverb set at the lowest setting, a signal passing through from an outside effects processor would not be "tainted" at all?

I'm still anxious to hear about the first tests of a BA Mixer, which are supposed to be available soon.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by lpa53

Just a newbie-non-techie question, but is it the case with both the BA and SA that with the reverb set at the lowest setting, a signal passing through from an outside effects processor would not be "tainted" at all?

Yes, the lowest settings on these built-in effects are "off."

[jennconducts]

Just FYI to everyone: I ordered my BagAmp on Sunday night (actually Monday morning) at 12:30 a.m. When I got home from my lesson today, it was on my doorstep. Nice. Full report to follow. I "may" play around with it tonight...


Jenn

[kramster]

Originally Posted by jennconducts

. I "may" play around with it tonight...


Jenn

What's this "may" stuff.. you will!

[BuleriaChk]

Deleting Message.......

[Ivan Lee]

OK so I will be the dissenting voice here :-).......

I A/B'd the BagAmp with a SoloAmp at my local store using an off the shelf Taylor Koa GS with expression system (didn't feel like singing in store so guitar only !). All controls flat, no reverb, columns as close together as was quickly achievable (SA is taller than BA), volumes reasonably well matched. These two pieces really sound very different to me!

Basic impression: Set with all controls flat neither stood out as a GREAT acoustic sound.
Soloamp: Very scooped -- lots of low end and crispy highs. Had great presence in the room but really lacked the warmth in the low mids to be the sound I like best. Although I did play with the EQ for a bit and certainly found some better sounds quickly this was not how I choose to concentrate my efforts.
BA: Huge clarity in the mids but really lacking in the lowend and the crispy highs. Although the amp projected around the room very nicely there was a boxiness to it that accentuated the 1kHz-ish range that I was not fond of (playing around with the EQ on the Taylor I couldn't really improve this sound either). While playing the same piece and having an onlooker plug me into one than the other I could really hear how certain notes just barked out of the guitar in the BA that sounded even and smooth in the SA.

I had about 3 quite interested onlookers (helpers :-)) as I played away for about 1/2 hour at medium volume (~80 to 90dBA at ~ 10 feet) they graciously kept swapping back and forth so we could hear the difference on a whole bunch of fingestyle pieces (std tuning, drop D, DADGAD and capo). We all had the same opinion of the sound (not the dispersion which was fine for both)......
SA: Wide, deep, clear, scooped -- but overall pleasant sounding
BA: Great mid clarity but thats just about it, narrower, boxier

I did like the form factor of the BA and thought the stand was adequate. For the last 10 minutes I turned the amps down a bit and just played one for 5 minutes and then the other. For me the SA inspired me much more.

Currently my main rig is a L1 model II. I also own the Bose compact which is a mere shadow of its siblings (but is not too bad if you add in the T1). I owned a SA for a while but at the time found the Bose Compact better suited for small spaces as well as having a lower stage volume for equivalent room penetration. For larger rooms or bigger stages the L1 is my main rig. I was going to bring the BA home to shootout with my compact but after hearing it next to the SA was not inspired to try it further. FWIW---- on any given day I think one of my guitars sucks while the other is amazing only to see that change a few days later SO ---- like all these posts here is my impression at a snapshot in time ---- not refuting any one else's opinion, just stating my own. YM (will most certainly) V.......

-Lee

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by propower

FWIW---- on any given day I think one of my guitars sucks while the other is amazing only to see that change a few days later SO ---- like all these posts here is my impression at a snapshot in time ---- not refuting any one else's opinion, just stating my own. YM (will most certainly) V.......

-Lee

Hi Lee,

FWIW, I don't think you're the only one, Bro!

Regards,

SpruceTop

[BuleriaChk]

Did you try playing with the tweeter in the SoloAmp? For me, it makes a huge difference - I think it comes turned all the way up (I think all the way down is flat..)

EDIT: All the way up is flat (0 db) On the Loudbox it added harshness, but on the SoloAmp reducing the tweeter seems to make it duller for my guitar (nylon string). The 0 db setting makes my guitar sound natural (at least at low volumes)...

Originally Posted by propower

OK so I will be the dissenting voice here :-).......

I A/B'd the BagAmp with a SoloAmp at my local store using an off the shelf Taylor Koa GS with expression system (didn't feel like singing in store so guitar only !). All controls flat, no reverb, columns as close together as was quickly achievable (SA is taller than BA), volumes reasonably well matched. These two pieces really sound very different to me!

Basic impression: Set with all controls flat neither stood out as a GREAT acoustic sound.
Soloamp: Very scooped -- lots of low end and crispy highs. Had great presence in the room but really lacked the warmth in the low mids to be the sound I like best. Although I did play with the EQ for a bit and certainly found some better sounds quickly this was not how I choose to concentrate my efforts.

-Lee

[Ivan Lee]

Originally Posted by BuleriaChk

Did you try playing with the tweeter in the SoloAmp? For me, it makes a huge difference - I think it comes turned all the way up (I think all the way down is flat..)

I wasn't aware of that feature!

I just called the place where I was playing it and they said it was set at the 0dB setting (goes from 0dB to -6dB). I am probably with you that -6dB on the tweet would have been a nice thing to try!

Thanks,
-Lee