A stupid incident

[inkbiegel]

Hi Guys

For a while I'm looking for a new acoustic guitar and I finally found him (or her).
The only thing left now is to decide where to buy it.
Which store has the best services and offcourse which one has the best price.
Normally I'm not so greedy for paying a few euros more at a store where I come the most.
But for this guitar prices differ within a range of 200 euros.

So I went to two shops.
Store A and Store B.

Store A told me on the phone how much it would cost.
And the price was nice.
He helped me in a descent way and I was satisfied.
I also told him I would come to his store because he organises the Taylor Road Show.


Now store B wanted to compete with that price but they wanted the price from store A on paper.

So I phoned back to Store A and asked if they could E-mail me the price just so I could compare it with other stores.

I thought that was a common thing to do but the owner of store A was getting annoyed and a bit offended.

He said he wasn't pleased that I "used" him for getting a better price at the other store.
Said he offered so much help (Just one phonecall and some emails) and so forth...
In the end he didn't gave me the price on email and the conversation didn't end well.

I was a bit shocked and almost felt guilty about it.

A bit later I heard that those two stores have personal issues between them.

still I think it's a shame that the customers are the "victim" in this.
Now I don't feel like going to Store A when he organises The Taylor Road Show because I wouldn't feel at ease when I'm there.


Maybe I worry too much about this or maybe I'm exaggerating.

What do you guys think?

Greets

[Troisnoir]

I've run into this on occasion.

Think of it this way: there's no reason why you shouldn't get stores to compete against each other so you can get the best price. But I'm not sure you should expect them to help you do it...they have no reason to help you lower their price. That's one reason stores have "unadvertised" prices.

[SCGib68]

I could type out 6 pages of replies to this type of scenario. But I'll try to make at least this first one brief. I'm partners in a mfg & wholesale business where we make mini mesh chain link fence fabric and ship nationwide and sometimes worldwide for high security projects. Customer A routinely calls and asks for pricing on large specific projects. Our quality, service and price are all 3 a consideration when he makes his buying decisions. I don't get all his orders, but I get more than my share because he uses multiple criteria. He doesn't go back and forth between me and the other mfg's using price as a hammer. So I always go the extra mile to earn his business. Customer B calls for a quote on every single item he buys. Often calling about the same item and similar quantities on separate projects within days or often hours. He talks about our quality being the best, our service being outstanding and that we are a pleasure to do business with. Yet when the rubber meets the road, he'll always go with the mfg that has the cheapest price. To date customer A has purchased 250k+ from us this year and customer B has purchased 7k.

Last week when customer B called in and talked to one of my sales staff they brought me the quote for approval. I told them I was "firing" customer B. The amount of time and energy we put into his acct was not worth the pricing level he was getting. Our efforts would be much better directed elsewhere. I explained that our putting the best number in his hands was counter productive to the market as he would routinely share that item to beat up someone else for a lower price.

While mini mesh chain link and guitars would seem to be very dissimilar products, there are some correlations that can be drawn between them. In purchasing a guitar, car or product for my company I consider the following:

1) quality of the product. for a guitar it's tone, feel and aesthetics. for wire rod it's coating and workability.

2) service. are they a 1 time seller or a long standing reputable organization? reliable shipping, service before, during and after the sale? are they helpful?

3) do I like the person/company I'm dealing with? often I've found the people I like the most work for the company who provide the best of #1 & #2. this is what I call the "relationship" side of buying.

4) price. are they competitive? does spending more affect my ability to use, enjoy and/or fiscally be able to afford the item?

These are ranked in my personal buying order of decision processes used. I know that doesn't apply to everyone, but because of my background in this business, I find myself applying it to my personal purchases. (this is why Jim at Guitar Rodeo just got my credit card for a new 710ce ltd!)

I've already thought of about 4 other things I could write here, but I've taken up enough of your time if you've read this already. Maybe later. Have a great day and good luck with your final decision!

[ccarnucci]

I think its simple.... The seller would not feel guilty if you bought the guitar without a discount. So why should you feel guilty about trying to get the best discount.

You can believe this. The seller doesn't care about you, he cares about his buisiness. (I'm not saying thats wrong, I just stating a fact).

Do whats best for you..it's buisiness not personal. And don't feel guilty about trying to get the best deal you can for your money.

I asked GC to price match guitar strings I can get on the internet cheaper than they sell them. If they can't price match then so be it I'll order them online, but I dont feel guilty for asking them. And BTW they did price match. They have a huge markup on products as most sellers do. They didn't loose money, they just didn't make as much. I'm OK with that!

[Wade Hampton]

The owner of Store A was perfectly justified in his response. When the owner of Store B demanded to see Store A's price on paper before he'd match it, that should have told you right there that it was a better idea to go with Store A.

You alienated the better guy. And you're not a "victim" here. You were trying to play two stores off against each other and got caught at it.

I think you should apologize to the store owner of Store A and buy the guitar from him. And then go visit again when the Taylor Roadshow arrives.

It's not the end of the world.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Michael Watts]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

The owner of Store A was perfectly justified in his response. When the owner of Store B demanded to see Store A's price on paper before he'd match it, that should have told you right there that it was a better idea to go with Store A.

You alienated the better guy. And you're not a "victim" here. You were trying to play two stores off against each other and got caught at it.

I think you should apologize to the store owner of Store A and buy the guitar from him. And then go visit again when the Taylor Roadshow arrives.

It's not the end of the world.


Wade Hampton Miller

Exactly. We had something similar recently with a guy trying to use our sale price against another store. Do what Wade suggests and all will be well. A human apology made face to face can sort out just about anything.

[Neal]

While I disagree that Store A was justified in his response, I agree with the rest of Wade's post.

It's a game, Store A should have responded like a true gamesman, "hey, this price is so low, I'm not going to put it in writing, but if you want to come in, it's yours". Not get angry that a potential customer who knows nothing of pricing structure is protecting his pocketbook.

Don't you hate the game? But be a man, go back and tell him he's right, and you're sorry you doubted him. You'll be fast friends.

[Tony Burns]

Believe me store B knows what store A sells it for -they also know store A wont help you shop around - If store B wants your sale they will compete without you running around -but its a ploy-because they know youll have difficulty . id check for other stores in your vacinity and if you want to take it a step further you might want to let store B know if they want your business they need to be competative.If you have no luck finding other sellers- go to Store A . Just remember each guitar might be different -one might be pristine and brand new- and possibly have a better tone - where the other one might be the total opposite - you need to go places and try guitars -you also might find theirs something better out their !

[1cubilindo]

Originally Posted by inkbiegel

Hi Guys

For a while I'm looking for a new acoustic guitar and I finally found him (or her).

He helped me in a descent way and I was satisfied.
I also told him I would come to his store because he organises the Taylor Road Show.


still I think it's a shame that the customers are the "victim" in this.


What do you guys think?

Greets

You are a class act.

[Gutch]

I think that Store A brought significant value to the equation by providing you information, carrying the inventory, arranging the Taylor Road Show to come to your town, being friendly & informed to be able to answer your questions. Store B wants your money.

Which store earned your business? From what I'm reading, it's definitely store A.

I would go to store A, purchase the guitar, and thank him for helping you to learn an important lesson on value over price.

[missouri.picker]

Once I was in the market for a D-41, some stores were 2K different in price. I was in California but I found a brand new D-41 in Nevada for 2K less than any shop near me. So, being a good shopper and knowing that new D-41's were all going to be very close in workmanship and tone (at least to me at the time), I called the California shop and said 'I got cash and do you want my business?' I had the California D-41 in my home that day for the same price as the Nevada shop. You are the customer and they are the in business to serve you. Don't feel guilty about it ever.

[korby]

This is why I got out of retail , give someone a crazy cheap price , and they want to shop it around .

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by ccarnucci

They have a huge markup on products as most sellers do. They didn't loose money, they just didn't make as much. I'm OK with that!

Although there is a decent amount of margin in strings and cable and MI accessories in general it is by no mean a huge markup. Add that to the fact that guitars and amps ect historically are among the worst marks in retail makes the retail guitar business pitiful. You want hugh markups? Go to Target and barter on a pair of socks. The markup difference can be as high as 600% and no one EVER haggles with that Target girl over matched prices.

I don't blame any Taylor dealer/salesman who shells out $3800 out of his pocket for the grand chance to sell it less than the $4000 he's already quoted when someone comes in and asks for it in writing.

[Buc McMaster]

In the first place, a guitar is much too personal an item to buy on price alone. Stores A and B may well have the same instrument in stock but one might be a dog and the other a real gem. No two guitars are the same and the variance can be huge, depending on which maker's guitar you're looking at purchasing.

Secondly, it's this "best-price-all-else-be consumerism that has killed off most of the Mom & Pop retail operations in the country. The big box chains can and do buy inventory at better pricing than one-location stores because of volume. Mom and Pop cannot long survive on the margins that these megastores thrive on. Look at what CVS has done to the corner drugstores of America; look at what Target and KMart have done to the family department stores that used to be everywhere. GC and internet shopping have done the same to single-location music retailers.

Good thing? Bad thing? You have to decide for yourself if price is all that matters to you. But there is no doubt that the big, take-the-money-and-run retail operations have killed off what was once the backbone of the country - the family-built and operated small business.

[Sordello]

Hello:

Excuse me for being so blunt, but I am afraid you are getting some rather poor advice from some of our members here. First and foremost, you do NOT owe the manager of Store A any apology; you owe him nothing except maybe a good kick up the @ss - which is what he deserves although both store managers were rather poor to you.

Stores try to make profit; they want their owners to have the most dollars that they can achieve in the market place. As a customer, you must treat your household budget as a "business" and you must try to save as many dollars as you can. You have every right to find the best price; you have every right to negotiate a best price, but you need to be more assertive about it:

You need to go to Store A and get a good price, then go to Store B and offer the same price less $20 or so. If he accepts, then you can have a guitar at a good price. If he refuses, you go back to Store A and get the guitar for the first price. No quotes, no emails - you handle it all, and if a store gives you attitude, tell them where to stick their guitars. Period.

Definitely, don't apologize. You did nothing wrong and the store owner behaved like an idiot.