1974 Martin D45 questions

[Dominick]

Many fine examples of 70s Martins out there that need nothing except perhaps a neck reset.
Smart move to educate yourself, this article should help:
https://reverb.com/news/70s-martins-...u-need-to-know

The neck profile was old school hand carved back then, generally speaking called a full C, and most comfortable.

[Wade Hampton]

The improperly located bridge saddle slot was a problem for about 13 or 14 months in 1971 and early 72. The tooling jig had gotten worn and nobody caught it for a while.

But most 1970’s vintage Martins were fine acoustic guitars. It’s because of the exaggerated retelling of the problems that did occur early in the decade that makes people repeat the usual slurs against them.

The problems get hugely overstated, but the good thing that comes with this “1970’s Martins were crap!!” legend getting perpetuated over and over again is that it keeps the prices on 1970’s Martins considerably more affordable than if the people repeating those rumors realized how far off base they really are.

Short version: the 1970’s Martins were much better than many people think, but DON’T TELL THEM!! Let’s keep the prices where they’re still affordable for those of us who don’t have multimillion trust funds....


Wade Hampton Miller

[Osage]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

The improperly located bridge saddle slot was a problem for about 13 or 14 months in 1971 and early 72. The tooling jig had gotten worn and nobody caught it for a while.

But most 1970’s vintage Martins were fine acoustic guitars. It’s because of the exaggerated retelling of the problems that did occur early in the decade that makes people repeat the usual slurs against them.

The problems get hugely overstated, but the good thing that comes with this “1970’s Martins were crap!!” legend getting perpetuated over and over again is that it keeps the prices on 1970’s Martins considerably more affordable than if the people repeating those rumors realized how far off base they really are.

Short version: the 1970’s Martins were much better than many people think, but DON’T TELL THEM!! Let’s keep the prices where they’re still affordable for those of us who don’t have multimillion trust funds....


Wade Hampton Miller

Wade, that's just not correct. I've seen dozens of later 70's Martins with the bridges in the wrong place. When I first started doing guitar repair, the repairman I was working for told me the first thing to do with a 70's Martin is to check the intonation and it's still the first thing I do when I work on one. I find that roughly 2/3's of 70's Martins have the proper intonation and 1/3 of them have pretty terrible intonation and the bridge in the wrong place. What I've been told was that they had 3 different jigs for bridge placement and one of them was bad, hence the fact that about 1/3 of Martins from the era have bridges in the wrong place.

[Goodallboy]

This example means exactly nothing, but here goes.

My friend bought a '70's D-41 in the 70's that sounded really, really good. It was his go to guitar until around 2005 when he acquired a mid 60's D-28 and that needed a neck reset and re-fret. After he got the work done on the D-28 he no longer plays the 41.

He would never sell the 41 and will keep it for one of his daughters but along side the D-28 it sounds muffled (overbuilt?) and indistinct in comparison.

[AxeDude]

I have a sunburst ‘73 D35 bought new. I had it refretted and a crack repaired where the pick guard was replaced because they used to put the finish on over it. Martin did the work. The neck is perfect. No intonation problems. No reset ever needed.
It’s not for sale.
Have a good repairman look over the D45. It’s probably a great buy.

[gmel555]

Originally Posted by Osage

..... I find that roughly 2/3's of 70's Martins have the proper intonation and 1/3 of them have pretty terrible intonation and the bridge in the wrong place. What I've been told was that they had 3 different jigs for bridge placement and one of them was bad, hence the fact that about 1/3 of Martins from the era have bridges in the wrong place.

Obviously, moving the bridge is not a small job, but just how big a job is it? What's involved?
1) Replace/reposition the bridge (can u just fill-in the saddle slot and re-rout it?)
2) Replace/reposition the bridge plate?
3) Any alterations needed on the bracing?
4) Anything else?
Or is it a "depends" on the individual guitar?
(apologies if the original OP topic is drifting here)

[Wade Hampton]

Osage, I’m not a guitar repairman, so I haven’t had a succession of Martins cross my workbench. But I’ve had my hands on hundreds of 70’s vintage Martins and have owned several of them. I’ve also got a very good ear for intonation. Honestly, I haven’t seen anything like the percentage of badly built 1970’s Martin guitars that you’ve run across - not even remotely.

This isn’t a question of me defending Martin guitars because I like them, either - I like Mossman guitars, as well, but I readily admit that most Mossman guitars have bad neck joints and by this point most will have needed neck resets just to remain playable.

Please don’t interpret this reply as me doubting your word; I’ve always enjoyed reading your posts and consider you to be a reliable source of information. But you’ve sure seen a far higher percentage of bad 1970’s Martins than I have.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Osage]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Osage, I’m not a guitar repairman, so I haven’t had a succession of Martins cross my workbench. But I’ve had my hands on hundreds of 70’s vintage Martins and have owned several of them. I’ve also got a very good ear for intonation. Honestly, I haven’t seen anything like the percentage of badly built 1970’s Martin guitars that you’ve run across - not even remotely.

This isn’t a question of me defending Martin guitars because I like them, either - I like Mossman guitars, as well, but I readily admit that most Mossman guitars have bad neck joints and by this point most will have needed neck resets just to remain playable.

Please don’t interpret this reply as me doubting your word; I’ve always enjoyed reading your posts and consider you to be a reliable source of information. But you’ve sure seen a far higher percentage of bad 1970’s Martins than I have.


Wade Hampton Miller

Wade, please don't interpret my post as an attack on 70's Martins. I Still say that the good ones are the best deal in vintage Martin guitars by far. I've just have seen a number of people who have bought 70's Martins online thinking they were getting their dream guitar only to show up at the shop wondering why it isn't. A pretty decent but not hard fast rule of thumb is if a 70's Martin is in true "case queen" condition, there's probably a reason.

[Timotao]

That's a great price for a D45. If I was looking for a D45, I would buy that one (because of the age and that the rosewood is probably fantastic) and get whatever needs fixed, fixed, and not look back. The reddish rosewood color from that age almost looks like Brazilian in color and figuring.

[TJNies]

Originally Posted by gmel555

Obviously, moving the bridge is not a small job, but just how big a job is it? What's involved?
1) Replace/reposition the bridge (can u just fill-in the saddle slot and re-rout it?)
2) Replace/reposition the bridge plate?
3) Any alterations needed on the bracing?
4) Anything else?
Or is it a "depends" on the individual guitar?
(apologies if the original OP topic is drifting here)

Remember that the bridge misplacement can be minimal, or up to 1/8". If it is off only slightly, you can fill in the slot and re-rout. If 1/8", that's not a good solution.
I also would not allow an oversized bridge to cover the ensuing scar.
If one is moving the bridge, I would likely have the bridgeplate replaced; the large RW one not only steals tone, it frays easier. So you may not get optimal contact with the strings.
As far as scalloping the braces, that may or may not be required. Couldn't hurt but possibly may not make it leaps better.

I had a 1974 D-28 that was the full 1/8"off, and had a luthier move it. He grafted the finish over to the vacated spot which was noticeable but not horrific from a visual perspective. He wasn't comfortable that he had the proper equipment (at the time) to deal with the bridge plate, so we left it alone. I took the opportunity to change tuners to Waverlys as well.

Ultimately the guitar was still a bit quiet; if I'd kept it I'd definitely had the bridgeplate replaced.

As I stated on a 70s D-28 thread, I'd peruse the Bryan Kimsey site. He is a well-known and respected expert on these guitars.

http://www.bryankimsey.com/