L50, L50 and archtops generally

[Archtop Guy]

Originally Posted by L50EF15

To my ear, there is a difference between carved and laminated or pressed tops, but a good laminated top still gives a wonderful sound. I think a carved top gives a stronger fundamental (again, subjective opinion) than a laminated top, which seems to emphasize the higher overtones: I hear laminated and pressed tops as a "stringier" sound. Saying that, I've never played an archtop I didn't like the sound of. For straight acoustic models, I've also owned two Harmony Montereys, and very nearly bought a vintage Martin "R" model.

I dunno. I guess it's similar to the solid top/laminated top debate among flattop players.

It's a lot like the discussion regarding flat tops. Do you remember the first time you played a quality, solid top instrument? I do, and it changed my view of guitars.

Archtops are the same. With only a very few exceptions solid, carved top archtops have much better acoustic performance than archtops with ply construction. But since jazz is usually amplified, the reduced acoustic response of a ES-175 or similar is an advantage for most players. But don't mix up the two, an ES-175 is not an L-5.

[WordMan]

All good; thanks for the additional insights. And yes, of course a guitar with built-in full size humbuckers is going to be structured for electric use only.

This Kalamazoo sounds great - like I said, I can't put it down, which is new for me with an archtop. The fact that it is a quirky, lam top, no truss rod, off-label Gibson is all part of its charm

[ttomm]

hi, friends

[ttomm]

All good; thanks for the additional insights. And yes, of course a guitar with built-in full size humbuckers is going to be structured for electric use only.

Originally Posted by WordMan

This Kalamazoo sounds great - like I said, I can't put it down, which is new for me with an archtop. The fact that it is a quirky, lam top, no truss rod, off-label Gibson is all part of its charm

.............

[WordMan]

Originally Posted by Archtop Guy

It's a lot like the discussion regarding flat tops. Do you remember the first time you played a quality, solid top instrument? I do, and it changed my view of guitars.

Archtops are the same. With only a very few exceptions solid, carved top archtops have much better acoustic performance than archtops with ply construction. But since jazz is usually amplified, the reduced acoustic response of a ES-175 or similar is an advantage for most players. But don't mix up the two, an ES-175 is not an L-5.

That makes sense. I have only dipped my toe in the archtop pond, but your analogy with experiencing great flattops is spot on.

So I am enjoying this K-zoo and it's idiosyncrasies, but am becoming aware that I may just be starting an archtop journey. And since this K-zoo is quirky and great with slide, I suspect it will be one I hold onto while I get comfortable trying to find a solid top more "pure" (for want of a better term) archtop...

[L50EF15]

Originally Posted by Archtop Guy

It's a lot like the discussion regarding flat tops. Do you remember the first time you played a quality, solid top instrument? I do, and it changed my view of guitars.

Archtops are the same. With only a very few exceptions solid, carved top archtops have much better acoustic performance than archtops with ply construction. But since jazz is usually amplified, the reduced acoustic response of a ES-175 or similar is an advantage for most players. But don't mix up the two, an ES-175 is not an L-5.

Oh goodness yes, and can I get an amen! Truth be told, the Harmony - cheap as it was compared to the L50, which I got later - had a solid top and it was my first solid top acoustic. It was a revelation coming from my laminated flattop. I checked out a couple of J50s recently and got that same "ahhhhhhhh yes" feeling, more than any flattop I've ever tried, various Martins included. It's the archtopiest flattop I've ever played, odd as that description is.

[Dr. Jazz]

Archies are the kings of the guitar world. They are the most difficult to build well and the most difficult to build consistently. The great "Doug Green" told me that there is much variation among L-5s (and other arch tops) and I am willing to believe him. He has big ears and has had more guitars pass through his hands than anyone could imagine.

I currently own a '37 L-50, a 50 L-4, a 66 L-5, a '36 Epi Emperor, and a 90s Anderson Streamline. All great examples of the breed.

However, the best of them are also the most expensive. :-(
Really great sounding archtops are expensive. - Sorry. When you play one of the big dogs, you'll know.

[L50EF15]

Way up the scale from a round hole L50, but THIS is why I want a round hole archtop in my stable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN5hM0pTOQk

[Archtop Guy]

Yeah, that L-4 is a heck of a guitar. So many guitars, so little time!

[ombudsman]

I only have a couple, and they're not particularly high end (a 60s Guild CA 100 and a 30s Gretsch model 30). But I like 'em. They both have solid spruce tops, rosewood boards, and minimal ornamentation.

The Gretsch sounds awesome for slide. I'm going to part with it, though, because while I like the sound and look of it, the neck is a little bit too narrow for me. I'd make it a dedicated acoustic lap steel, but the nut is too narrow for a steel raiser nut, the outer strings would be hanging off the board.

I saw a cowboy movie (sorry, forgot which one) where a singing cowboy was walking through the center of town playing a sunburst archtop. If you look at enough old photos and clips you'll see them used for all kinds of music inc. blues, country, and rock and roll. Brij Brushan Kabra plays amazing Indian classical music on acoustic archtops (usually modified with extra sympathetic strings, but he has played pretty much stock Gibsons in the past).

[Bm7b5]

So, it's 2003. Just sold my house in CO. Returned from CA for the closing. Stopped into GC, and in the "good" room sat a Tacoma carved, not formed Cherry Burst Arche-Top. Played it, and fell in love. It was $1,499 used. It was 7:00 pm. Decided I would go home, do some research on value, and if it was a good deal, return the next day.

Went home, found out retail was $2295, and no longer produced after the sale of Tacoma to Fender.

Returned 1st thing the next day,.........gone.


Have been on the lookout ever since, but very rare to find.


*******!!

[bohemian]

"Really great sounding archtops are expensive....... When you play one of the big dogs, you'll know."

Don't always have to be "expensive" , I'll substitute" quality"

True, when you play a great one the difference is even moreso than on a flat top.

I'm spoiled, a friend down the road has about 40 archtops from the 20's forward..

Mr Beaumont.. what is your understanding of Gibson's intent with their first archtops, orchestral ?

[mr. beaumont]

I think mandolin orchestras...

But screw those plinky little things, lets swing! Lloyd Loar had a great design...just a misguided marketing ploy...shoot, Columbus thought he was in India...

B half dim, I played a Tacoma archie once...I will own one someday. Truth is, Tacoma didn't know anything about making a traditional archtop...but they made one anyway, and there's never been another guitar like it.

[Bm7b5]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I think mandolin orchestras...

But screw those plinky little things, lets swing! Lloyd Loar had a great design...just a misguided marketing ploy...shoot, Columbus thought he was in India...

B half dim, I played a Tacoma archie once...I will own one someday. Truth is, Tacoma didn't know anything about making a traditional archtop...but they made one anyway, and there's never been another guitar like it.

Perhaps, but they knew enough to actually carve the top, instead of wetting it and forcing it into a mold, which is why I believe they are so good, for such a relatively inexpensive Archie. And theit floating bridge was beautiful. Not just taking it, and finding out later if it was a bargain, is one of the very few times I regret doing thorough research. My guess, employee/manager snagged it.

{insert kicking self in the butt to this day emoticon here}

[L50EF15]

Bm7b5 - Thank you for turning on the bulb over my head: I always wondered how pressed archtops were made.