#16
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On the subject of ToneDexter, I wonder how Soundscape will compare with ToneDexter in the area of feedback rejection. That should be an interesting comparison.
ToneDexter does a finite reduction of two resonant frequencies for a particular guitar/pickup rig, while Soundscape makes a "feedback profile" of three resonant frequencies and provides an anti-feedback knob which allows the user to dial out a selected amount of those resonant frequencies. Lloyd Baggs has commented that the Soundscape's anti-feedback feature may be the Soundscape's "sleeping dog" aspect. It'll be interesting to learn what kind of bite the sleeping dog has. |
#17
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Prolly can hear frequencies that we mere humans simply cannot.
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#18
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In that case, it will be very similar to my first gig experience with ToneDexter.
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#19
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Random Thoughts on Aura and ToneDexter
I think Fishman's competitive advantage is 25 hours of operation on a single 9v alkaline battery. They got started early enough that even the pedal probably could not handle the computational requirements of playback using the current state-of-the-art 40 mS, 2048 coefficient, IR. As a result they developed techniques around a shorter IR fortified with traditional EQ (IIR). The short IR saves power, and IIR techniques are very power stingy but notoriously hard to program. In EE undergrad you find IIR filters are often named after their inventors, where as an FIR filter (the thing that "plays" your IR) can be designed by trial and error.
As a result of this compromise, Aura does not lend itself to generating its IR with IIR outside of their premises, and to my ear some aspects sound a little funky as you up the IR percentage in the mix. And finally because it is a downloaded IR, if you don't like their mic placement, or your individual guitar has some variation from the factory one, it can't be optimal to your ear. I think the mic selection they advertise is mostly marketing. I think ToneDexter's competitive advantage is no IR algorithm compromise for battery operation, a custom IR quality controlled by you, and a completely self contained DIY solution in one bullet proof over designed metal box that if you wish can be left not updated until you pass this earth :~). When Soundscape comes to market, it will be interesting to see where it fits.
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jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator .wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE My duo's website and my email... [email protected] Jon Fields |
#20
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Outstanding synopsis as usual Jon. I also liked your comment in the Sable thread about the RS Vintage Dread - which may have been a better choice for me too.
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"Lift your head and smile at trouble. You'll find happiness someday." |
#21
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It's trying to be. I won't be switching.
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You're talking to me. I hear music. And the whole world is singing along https://marshallsongs.com/ https://www.reverbnation.com/marshal...ther-tragedies http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-UGW...neHaUXn5vHKQGA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGxDwt26FZc http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/marshallsongs http://www.myspace.com/marshallhjertstedt |
#22
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Too many people passing judgment on the Soundscape and it hasn’t even been released yet.
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#23
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Really, take you phone, plop it on a table edge and record into it. Half the tuning apps on phones don't work all that well. Kind of seems like going for the lazy market.
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Yamamoto Jumbo 27 - Bashkin Placencia FanFret Cedar/EIR - Leo Posch DS12 Adj/Hormigo - Ovation Legion shallow body - - Taylor 562 GC 12 String - C. Freeborn Alto- Froggy Bottom H12C Adj/EIR- Ryan Nightengale Engelmann/Af. Blackwood - Kostal MD |
#24
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Skeptical bunch :-) I'm surprised at how few companies are taking advantage of mobile devices. You've got what would have been considered a supercomputer not that long ago in your pocket, with a very flexible user interface, built-in mics that can be calibrated, flexible IO, etc. All just waiting to be leveraged, as Baggs is doing. Pretty smart, I'd say. I wouldn't be put off by a few cheap tuner apps, we'll see more apps that really exploit what's possible in the future.
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#25
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ToneDexter may have no app or USB interface, but it is complete and Audio Sprocket's engineering investment is going into how it sounds, not how it looks on your phone. And if it's such a good deal to use the phone's applications processor chip, Soundscape should MAP as the bargain it implies. A lesser processor embedded in the pedal will take longer to calculate an IR, but so what. My IR generator runs in a second or so on (multithreaded) Matlab, but more like 5+ on (single thread) Octave. I think we've all got that much extra time. I am going to put up on the AGF an IR demo by Shufflebeat today, done with a UST and an SM57 (you know, the microphone you already own by unscrewing the pop filter off your SM58) using my and Cuki's IR generators. You don't need an expensive mic or pickup. Soundscape saving you a mic is a feature of limited value IMO.
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jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator .wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE My duo's website and my email... [email protected] Jon Fields Last edited by jonfields45; 07-10-2020 at 05:56 AM. |
#26
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A post above mentioned the Soundscape as basically a lazy approach. I disagree, I think Lr Baggs are trying to make the process even more simple for the average musician. Maybe it won’t come out as natural as the Tonedexter but let’s say it gets 60% of the way there. For most players that will be a huge step forward. Even the Aura imaging is often set at a blend of 30/40% which is not 100% natural but it sounds amazing live. You don’t always need the most authentic mic’d tone. I don’t even run my Tonedexter wavemaps at full character. Generally it’s around 70%. With that said, who knows how good the Soundscape will sound. It might be “meh” but it might be really good. Let’s just wait and see. There are tons of gear out there that utilize apps but still have exceptional tonal qualities. I don’t think it’s right for us to speculate that Baggs spent more time on the app vs the tones. |
#27
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I don't have any inside info on the delay in Soundscape, other than what Lloyd has said publicly, but I do know of multiple other manufacturers who are having trouble getting parts for their hardware devices right now due to the virus. I'd also not be surprised if someone in Bagg's marketing is debating whether it makes sense to release a product aimed at live performance in the current environment. So we'll see...
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#28
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The apps many of us use on our phones to configure external devices are a thin layer of software on top of standard OS browser support (running on the phone OS and the target hardware's RTOS). Taking a sample with a phone's mic and calculating an IR (and uploading the pickup sample over Bluetooth), which must be correlated in an absolute sense to what we hear, is a much bigger project. Any DSP powerful enough that it can play the IR back in real time could also calculate it. That is a much smaller development project IMO.
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jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator .wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE My duo's website and my email... [email protected] Jon Fields |
#29
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This is a fun thread! Smart experienced people debating the unknowable!
Sorry if I got carried away. I started my career at Bell Labs, where the real claim to fame should have been everyone there had an opinion inversely proportional to direct knowledge.
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jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator .wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE My duo's website and my email... [email protected] Jon Fields |
#30
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Not so sure...
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Martin 00-18V Goldplus + internal mic (2003) Martin OM-28V + HFN + internal mic (1999) Eastman E6OM (2019) Trance Audio Amulet Yamaha FGX-412 (1998) Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013) Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014) http://acousticir.free.fr/ |